Just Some Thoughts...
There's has been an interesting exercise going on over at the Big L libertarian blog of Franco Aragosta over the past few days. It started with Franco putting up a post essentially defending the proprietor of Progressive Eruptions, Shaw Kenawe. Without going into great detail, you can click on the link for detail, Franco elaborated on their once friendly and cordial relationship. Franco pointed out many of what he seems to truly believes are the many fine qualities of Ms.Shaw Kenawe. He also acknowledges that politically he and Ms. Shaw are on opposite poles and that he despises her politics. However, Franco makes it perfectly clear that he has never held Ms. Shaw's political leanings against her and indeed wishes that they could have remained friends. A loss I should mention he assigns responsibility for to Ms. Shaw.
Before going further, I am not defending OR criticizing Mr. Franco on this post. That IS emphatically NOT the purpose of this post. I AM posting this in hopes that even a few people might see it, read Mr. Franco's posts at his weblog on the subject, and then reflect on the real intent and purpose of Mr. Franco's posts. For that is what I did and came away with a better understanding of him as well as seeing better what and how political extremes are doing to DIVIDE our democratic republic. As a wise man once said, together we stand, divided we all.
Being a small L libertarian I believe as adamantly as anyone in individual liberties and the rule of law. I despise the belief that ANY individual in a position of power has the right to deny me, or anyone else, their rights under the law. On the other hand I believe government serves many societal purposes. Among them is the altruistic actions necessary to insure that those less fortunate or capable than many do not have to live in poverty without adequate health care. Even Thomas Paine way back in the late seventeen hundred understood the need for social security. For these reasons, among others, Franco and I also became almost mortal enemies. But enough of that.
As stated above I read and reflected on Franco's posts. As well as reading all the comments left by those in his community that generally share his political views. After doing so, several times, I came away with the sincere belief that Mr. Franco was indeed sharing his true feelings towards Ms. Shaw and that he decided to defend Ms. Shaw in the hopes that his "regulars" might end their impolite and very rude bashing of Ms. Shaw simply because of their political differences. Franco has, as long as I've been aware of him, refrained from saying anything negative about MS. Shaw. Other than he despised what he believes is her misguided politics. The same CANNOT be said of many of his regulars.
What I found unusual is that many of the members of Shaw's community expressed on her weblog that Franco was actually setting up his blog with those posts so others in his community would have the opportunity to bash Ms. Shaw for him while he played "good cop" so to speak. On the other hand members of Mr. Franco's community, while not hyper critical of Franco, they did express their usual negative sentiments and sometimes in very vulgar offensive language. This isn't really important but I fail to understand the responses from Mr. Franco's community or Ms. Shaw's community.
Unless, and until, we find ways to openly discuss our difference honestly, respectfully, without manipulation and ego centric postures, this nation will remain seriously divided. Further, the longer we remain divided and at each others throats the worse the divisions will become. Which is also a point made by Mr. Franco.
In closing, as creatures of divine love we are all brothers and sisters. It is time to start acting like it. Myself included.
PS: While I still disagree with several of Mr. Franco's positions, as well as not understanding his support of Donald J. Trump, I have found a new respect for Franco. Specifically because of his recent efforts relative to the subject of this post.
Before going further, I am not defending OR criticizing Mr. Franco on this post. That IS emphatically NOT the purpose of this post. I AM posting this in hopes that even a few people might see it, read Mr. Franco's posts at his weblog on the subject, and then reflect on the real intent and purpose of Mr. Franco's posts. For that is what I did and came away with a better understanding of him as well as seeing better what and how political extremes are doing to DIVIDE our democratic republic. As a wise man once said, together we stand, divided we all.
Being a small L libertarian I believe as adamantly as anyone in individual liberties and the rule of law. I despise the belief that ANY individual in a position of power has the right to deny me, or anyone else, their rights under the law. On the other hand I believe government serves many societal purposes. Among them is the altruistic actions necessary to insure that those less fortunate or capable than many do not have to live in poverty without adequate health care. Even Thomas Paine way back in the late seventeen hundred understood the need for social security. For these reasons, among others, Franco and I also became almost mortal enemies. But enough of that.
As stated above I read and reflected on Franco's posts. As well as reading all the comments left by those in his community that generally share his political views. After doing so, several times, I came away with the sincere belief that Mr. Franco was indeed sharing his true feelings towards Ms. Shaw and that he decided to defend Ms. Shaw in the hopes that his "regulars" might end their impolite and very rude bashing of Ms. Shaw simply because of their political differences. Franco has, as long as I've been aware of him, refrained from saying anything negative about MS. Shaw. Other than he despised what he believes is her misguided politics. The same CANNOT be said of many of his regulars.
What I found unusual is that many of the members of Shaw's community expressed on her weblog that Franco was actually setting up his blog with those posts so others in his community would have the opportunity to bash Ms. Shaw for him while he played "good cop" so to speak. On the other hand members of Mr. Franco's community, while not hyper critical of Franco, they did express their usual negative sentiments and sometimes in very vulgar offensive language. This isn't really important but I fail to understand the responses from Mr. Franco's community or Ms. Shaw's community.
Unless, and until, we find ways to openly discuss our difference honestly, respectfully, without manipulation and ego centric postures, this nation will remain seriously divided. Further, the longer we remain divided and at each others throats the worse the divisions will become. Which is also a point made by Mr. Franco.
In closing, as creatures of divine love we are all brothers and sisters. It is time to start acting like it. Myself included.
PS: While I still disagree with several of Mr. Franco's positions, as well as not understanding his support of Donald J. Trump, I have found a new respect for Franco. Specifically because of his recent efforts relative to the subject of this post.
RN... I've read both of those posts... some of the commenters described Franco's posts as a "Trash Shaw" post, harking back to similar posts Franco has put up. IMHO, you are being too kind to Franco.
ReplyDeleteRead his post regarding Ducky today at AOW...
"NO, Canardo! YOU are an IDEOLOGUE as much or more than any person I've ever known.
YOU are the FANATIC.
YOU and all your demented kind are the most ILLIBERAL individuals we see (n the true sense of the word) LIBERAL).
The handiest –– and truest –– example of the kind f gvernment you yearn for, –– whether you know it or not ––, would be NAZI GERMANY.
National S_O_C_I_A_L_I_S_M –– one of the greatest evils ever to arise from the muck and mire of life on tis benighted planet.
I honestly don't believe you to be WICKED, Ducky, nor do I think you insaane, but that means I have no other choice but to think woefully IGNORANT of REAITY, and tragically MISEDUCATED.
Aside from all that HOW ARE YOU DOING? I hope you are making steady gains after your very serous recent surgery. Believe it or not, we wuldn't want to LOSE you.
You may be a pain-in-the-ass, but you are OUR pain-in-the-ass, and that makes you oddly lovable -- even if you don't return the compliment.
Take care!
Franco is violently passive aggressive, offers little charity, is not interested in common ground and betrays the words of the savior he frequently intones to why the world is filled with chaos.
Ducky is in no way desirous of a system like that of Nazi Germany, as Franco/Free charges.
How on earth is someone to find common ground with someone who makes those kinds of charges against people with whom he disagrees politically?
Hi Dave, As you likely know I have taken a beating at Franco's. This is because I, being the highly opinionated individual I am refuse to accept that which I believe to be false or hypocritical. I simply refuse to back down when I believe facts are on my side. Franco is exactly like that. Unfortunately THAT does create a demolition of the efforts to find common ground.
DeleteToo many people (myself included) often allow the ego to get in the way of true meaningful dialogue. It becomes more important to argue in defense of your own often long held positions than it does to earnestly listen to learn and achieve some level of understanding.
I went to AOW's and read Franco's complete comment. First I do not think Franco or anyone has enough knowledge of Ducky to make the sweeping judgment that Franco has made. Nor do I believe, based on what I've read from Ducky's comments that Franco's judgement is even close to accurate.
Second, Franco has extremely strong views that his experiences and education must have played a significant role in the formation of. Being nearly 80 years old he really is an old dog that IMO really doesn't want to "learn new tricks" so to speak. My now deceased father was the same and the older he got the more stubbornly he held to what I considered out dated and flawed beliefs. We had some pretty intense disagreements. Loved him even with that.
My personal feelings are that far too many folks spend far too much time letting their egos control their responses to things and not enough time in quiet contemplation and reflections. Or actually listening or reading to understand. Mush can be learned by considering the wisdom of others. Including many of the eastern philosophies, religions, and cultures.
We hear a lot about globalism these days and this is a big component of what folks like Franco and Trump fear. Why I'm not sure. The return to a more isolationist me first mentality is not the solution. It clearly will not make things better.
I'm rambling I know but I am beginning to understand why our old friend Jersey, as true a progressive as any progressive, actually liked and became friendly with Franco/FreeThinke.
There’s only one way to decide who is wrong or right in this matter
ReplyDeleteI say we start out the debates with push-up competition followed by the remainder of the debate being done on an ever-increasing speed treadmill. And if there isn’t a clear winner at that point. Then Franco should take Shaw behind the barn and beat the shit out of her.
There is NO DEBATE. You are PART OF THE PROBLEM.
DeleteNO YOU MORONIC SHIT-HEAD, SHAW IS THE PROBLEM, AND ASS KISSER LIKE YOU ADD TO THE PROBY
ReplyDeleteLMAO! Thanks for confirming JUST HOW RIGHT I AM
DeleteIt was really a beautiful thing to see Shaw finally get what was coming to her. Perhaps YOU will be next on Franco's blog of the Truth.
DeleteA sock puppet arrives right on cue.
DeleteThere is NOTHING beautiful about the fallacious and vulgar comments left by the group of morons over at Franco's weblog. Only a complete fool would think so. But thanks for self identifying as a fool.
As for being next Franco's blog of truth, I'm FINE with a bunch of fools doing what they do best. Acting like themselves.
Be careful what you say, your friend Shaw may be reading this!
DeleteI haven't the time to worry about what Shaw or Franco might say. I call em as I see em. Like it or not.
DeleteNow, domnt waste any more of my time or yours.
I completely DISAGREE with you.
ReplyDeleteFranco was, and IS right in what he said about the Hateful Blogger Shaw. And furthermore she deserves everything that he said and much more.
I happen to not agree with all of Shaw's positions either. But as Franco made PERFECTLY CLEAR on HIS weblog Shaw is intelligent and talented. Go back and read his posts. He despises her politics, as he does mine and that is okay. Speaking for myself I couldn't care less that he does.
DeleteThe point is, you can vehemently disagree with and despise someones politics without making it completely personal. Something there is far too much of in political blogistan. AS well as misinformation and disinformation.
Be part of the solution. Not part of the problem.
I think Franco does not just hate your politics, RN. He hates you personally. He certainly seems to hate me personally. Why Shaw is exempt from his hatred is a mystery to me.
DeleteI am absolutely certaim you are right. He hates me personslly. And THAT is okay as it is certainly his prerogative to do so.
DeleteHating is like cancer, the more you hate the more miserable and angry YOU become. Franco is Franco, personally I feel a bit sorry for Franco. He's been locked in the box he created for himself for many years I'm sure. But that is his choice. What I dislike in Franco, and all cons like him, is their efforts to push back the social gains more tolerant folks and lawmakers have made over the last hundred or so years.
Franco still has booth feet in the past and refuses to change. At 80 he's a bit like my own father. A dude who listened to FAUX News and would have voted Trump had he been able. He dies 3 days after the 2016 election.
Franco does not hate Shaw because other than politics they have similar interests. That avd Shaw NEVER comments on his weblog with her views. We have poked Franco and others on WYD's weblog in the eye often enough that he hates us on any and all levels.
BTW, good to see you here.
Franco can say that if he wants too... Although I don’t think that he really believes it. But nevertheless I think that Shaw is a complete lying FOOL, and nothing at all as he said.
ReplyDeleteYou are entitled to your opinion. Regardless of how lacking in truth they might be. Shaw backs up everything she posts. You can disagree with the perspective AND the supporting data if you want. However, Shaw does not simply blow made up smoke like many of the con bloggers do on certain sites.
DeleteOpinions are like assh**es, everybody has one.
I read through the referenced comments. They were certainly united in their opinions. In light of the anonymity of modern
ReplyDeletemedia, I always take the time to try and understand where people are coming from by looking up their profile. All except
old Silverfiddle were blank. Who knows why? Shame, cowardice, guilt perhaps? So, I disregard what they have to say-just rage blowing in the wind akin to MacBeth's " a poor player, That struts and frets his hour upon the stage, And then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing." Shaw is a partisan, considerably more dignified than her detractors, albeit stooping to their invective at times. At one time, I engaged with the far right and found myself constantly challenged to provide sources for my FAKE information. I would oblige with
numerous links and be further challenged with 'those are fake links, I only take Conservapedia or Breitbart'. Kudos for the blogger making a courageous and thoughtful attempt at closing a huge, almost impossible gap in current political
blog conversation..I suspect that had Jesus, Moses or St. Thomas commented there, they would have been met with inane,
ungrounded and vile insults. (That's why I didn't! :) )
Indeed BB Idaho. With respect to con weblogs, especially pro Trumper weblogs, they are decidedly NOT at all interested in finding common ground. What they ARE interested in is maintaining an echo chamber where those of like mind can discuss variations of the same con arguments. Often arguments that have been debunked by facts. Facts that trumpers simply refuse to accept in favor of their alternate reality. To be fair there certainly are some liberal weblogs that are echo chambers as well, although not to the degree seen on con weblogs IMO.
DeleteSilverfiddle is one of the few bloggers that while I don't agree with often is at least as honest and presents things in a less offensive and confrontational way than say Franco (FreeThinke), Radical Redneck, Rusty Shackelford, and all the no profile sock puppets traversing the political blogoshpere.
You're right BB Idaho, Shaw is a progressive partisan. She admits as much. But Shaw at least always backs her position on posts and in her comments with actual facts and readily links to the articles or data she is discussing. While she can be curt that usually happens only when a blogger deserves curtness. Yeah, some of her posts rhetoric can be offensive to the trumpers and those with sensitive sensibilities, but, sometimes the truth bothers folks. Especially those who know she is presenting the truth they would prefer wasn't so. That says much about them.
After reading the responses to recent comments I left on Franco's and WYD's extreme right-wing echo chambers (some anonymously) it is clear that trying to have an intelligent dialogue with ideologues and zealots is nothing more than an exercise in futility. For those folks its either Trump's and the GOP's way or the highway. If you happen to be a liberal or a libertarian/conservative (of truth) your're considered an idiot, a moron, an as*hole, a Marxist, a commie, or a host of other names. None of which are true.
There is NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER in my mind but what if Christ, Moses, or St. Thomas were with us today and they opposed Trump and the GOP agenda they would be met with the same.
Bigger HYPOCRITES and LIARS there has never been in America IMO.