Who Are the Proud Americans?...
by: Les Carpenter
Rational Nation USA
Purveyor of Truth
Are liberals, those consistently leaning leftward proud the be an American? Lets see what the Washington Post and the polls say.
So, 60% of the political left are not proud to be an American. Hm, so, why don't they relocate to say France, Greece, Portugal, even China or Russia you might ask.
On the other hand...
... it appears that just over 7 in 10 steadfast conservatives and 8 in 10 business conservatives are generally proud tom be an American.
I suppose none of these "findings" come as a real surprise. As least they don't to me. I'm curious as to where the moderates and centrists come done on this issue.
Perhaps below?
You can find the complete article BELOW THE FOLD.
So conservative and liberal visitors to to this site... what say you?
Via: Memeorandum
Rational Nation USA
Purveyor of Truth
Are liberals, those consistently leaning leftward proud the be an American? Lets see what the Washington Post and the polls say.
Michelle Obama took some heat in 2008 for saying that, "for the first time in my adult life I am proud of my country..."
As it turns out, that sentiment isn't all that unusual on the far left of American politics. According to a new Pew Research Center study, only 40 percent of consistently liberal Americans say they often feel proud to be Americans.
So, 60% of the political left are not proud to be an American. Hm, so, why don't they relocate to say France, Greece, Portugal, even China or Russia you might ask.
On the other hand...
... it appears that just over 7 in 10 steadfast conservatives and 8 in 10 business conservatives are generally proud tom be an American.
I suppose none of these "findings" come as a real surprise. As least they don't to me. I'm curious as to where the moderates and centrists come done on this issue.
Perhaps below?
You can find the complete article BELOW THE FOLD.
So conservative and liberal visitors to to this site... what say you?
Via: Memeorandum
I am proud to be an American but I am not proud of some of the dumbshit things our leaders do and say.
ReplyDeleteI'm with you Jerry. Damn proud to be an American! It's the a-hole leaders in both parties over the years that say & do those dumbsh*t things that disgusts me.
DeleteI'm not sure if RN is calling out Liberals with this post or not. But, given that Americans generally reject Libertarianism, is RN proud to be an American? That is the real question (IMO). Will we get an answer?
ReplyDeleteLes: I guess my answer to this question is nuanced. I'm proud of what America was founded on. I'm proud of our Constitutional freedoms. I'm not proud of where this country is heading (as in tearing down the individual liberties we were founded on) and the oligarchy-controlled two party system that is tearing apart our standard of living and future.
DeleteTim, good to have you visit.
ReplyDeleteI, like you, am proud to be an American. Even with its issues and problems it remains my country, and I remain confident it will not fail.
I am grateful that our founders, and the founding documents they created have stood the test of time. Indeed this nation was created on the intellegence and wisdom of giants.
Our guaranteed constitutional freedoms and liberties are still intact, but they will remain so only if we continue to recognize that the greater the freedom and liberty the greater the responsibiliy we as individuals must shoulder.
I have become cynical and with each passing week I become more so. When I see the divisive nature in our politics, the utter outright deception by elected officials (primarily republican), the constantly growing gap between lower and upper echelons of our society, the irresponsibility of the NRA, the rampant and growing influence of wealthy special interests, the politicization of our Supreme Court, the drive by many to increase the influence of theology in our secular government, the out of control MIC, and more I do worry.
Our nation has managed to spend its way to the brink of fiscal insanity, and I personally hold
republicans and conservatives most responsible.
It's getting late and I'm rambling. In closing I'll add that if this nation fails to find its way back to the ability to work out effective compromise as our nation's founders did we're screwed.
Time to stop the constant BS and get down to really solving problems. Apply the founding principles honestly to today's realities and be prepared to accept compromise when reason calls for compromise.
Think long term rational self interest and realize not everyone will share identical interests.
RN said - "Our nation has managed to spend its way to the brink of fiscal insanity, and I personally hold
Deleterepublicans and conservatives most responsible. "
True, definitely, if you look at the Dem vs GOP President percent of the debt. However, it is likely during the term of the next President after Obama, if this President is a Democrat, that the Democratic proportion of this debt will eclipse the Republican portion.
"Time to stop the constant BS..."
Yes. Obama and Congress need a zero-deficit budget RIGHT NOW. No excuses, no claiming that running a $400 billion deficit is responsible because it is less than a trillion dollar deficit.
We will just have to wait and see if your prediction comes to pass.
DeleteMy prediction is I have no prediction.
Reagan and Bush 2 are standouts with respect to ballooning the federal dept. Reagan the result of his spending like a drunken sailor to facilitate the collapse of the old USSR and Bush 2 on phantom WMD and the erroneous belief that the Iraqi's posed a security thereat to the USA. We will be paying for the Bush 2 miscalculations for years.
My guess is deficits will continue and the federal (national) debt will gradually be reduced. My thought are the debt will most likely be reduced under democratic executive oversight rather than republican.
The age of republican (conservative) fiscal conservatism died quite some time ago and has been replaced with laughable buffoons that are both self serving and beholden to special interests, especially the MIC. Both parties are responsible of this to some degree but republicans have taken it into the stratosphere IMNHO.
Maybe more later.
"My guess is deficits will continue and the federal (national) debt will gradually be reduced"
DeleteHow will this happen, when each deficit will increase the debt?
"My thought are the debt will most likely be reduced under democratic executive oversight rather than republican."
DeleteAnd this is wishful thinking (though I do hope it comes to pass, somehow!). What happened when we have had Democrats?
Clinton spent like a drunken sailor and increased the national debt more than 30%. True, it wasn't as bad as the Bush's before and after.... but the difference is like that of a drunken sailor who drank an entire twelve pack, between two other more drunken sailors who quaffed two entire twelve-packs each. Obama's been off the charts so far. This wise executive oversight you seek hasn't been seen in Democrats either, for many decades.
dmarks, you may interpret the record any which way you like. The record stands on it's on truth and I have posted the numbers, they are real and they are what they are.
DeleteNow glad you caught me on the the deficit/ debt issue.
What I say is true only if the nation makes a SERIOUS CONCERTED effort to acheive significant reduction in annual deficits AND we increase our payments in total to our creditor nations so the amount we are paying to service our national debt EXCEEDS the amount we borrow to balance each fiscal years books. Of course this will also require an increase in economic activity AND additional taxes.
It is unlikely the above will happen because our politicians lack political will. AND, in truth the people don't understand or want to undestand the serious nature of our current precarious situation.
Besides, everyone knows it's better to cut taxes, spend more on war and worldwide policing, concentrate even more wealth in the hands of fewer people, offshore more business activity, have a martini or three, and call it a day.
Stay tuned Dervish.
ReplyDelete"dmarks, you may interpret the record any which way you like. The record stands on it's on truth and I have posted the numbers, they are real and they are what they are."
ReplyDeleteNo "interpreting" done. Just looking at what was spent vs what came in. I just don't do what Octo does, which was cook the books to make Clinton look better by leaving out a lot of his spending. It just look at the ungarnished, untampered numbers from the US Treasury Department. Bush looks terrible in these unadorned numbers also. If I were interested in cooking the numbers as Octo did, I would ignore the real totals for Bush too instead of for Clinton.
I strongly disagree that we need more taxes, as tax revenues are close to a record high. But I am very open to reforms you have talked about before, including closing loopholes. But the "greed for greed's sake" (my summary of those who want even worse overtaxation just for the hell of it) of increasing already excessive tax rates won't help the desired "economic activity" (your words) I do agree we need massive spending cuts. And yes this includes the MIC.
"It is unlikely the above will happen because our politicians lack political will. "
I fully agree with that. Even those who show signs of being true mavericks are still deeply part of the political machine (example: Rand Paul)
I continue to believe we need to do the things I have posted and commented on. Bit we are so f'd up now more is needed. Perhaps I discuss again someday.
Delete'proud' like 'patriotic' seems to be one of those shifting definitions. We have come to a point where
ReplyDeletelogic has become inverted, opinion trumps facts and one proud American may be the opposite of the
next proud American. Dumbfounded by the recent poll that found Obama the worst president since
WWII, I find myself in agreement with Capt. Fogg of the Swash Zone (and shamelessly quote)
"The horror is that we brought this on ourselves and the truth is that we are the worst Americans since WWII with a contempt for justice and a contempt for the truth and we will hang on to our prejudice and superstition and delusion and greed like a drowning man clutching an anchor. The horror is that our system of government depends on a kind of citizen we're reduced to a minority and the ability of the insurgents to incapacitate the reasonable, the educated and well balanced increases every day. The very technology we once thought would spread enlightenment has spread lies and lies so palatable that we gobble them up like a starving dog gobbling shit. It's over. We failed. It's our fault and the only desperate hope I cling to is that when America fails it doesn't take the world with it."
Someone earlier in the comment thread said "Obama and Congress need a zero-deficit budget RIGHT NOW"... in regards to this I say that sounds like an excellent idea, if your goal is to crash the economy and bring about a deep and long lasting depression. The stock market would probably start tanking as soon as it was learned such a thing was being considered. Honestly, it astounds me that anyone would suggest anything so ill-advised (and that's putting it mildly). Thankfully no one in either party is suggesting such insanity.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to being proud of America... other than voting, I don't have much to do with what America does or has done. Why should I be proud or ashamed of things other people do or have done? I think many people feel this is something they HAVE to say or face scorn.