Finally... Recognizing the Futility... The Founding Fathers and Ayn Rand Had It Right
by: Les Carpenter
Rational Nation USA
Birthplace of Independent Conservatism
Having been brow beat, belittled, maligned, cursed, referred to as reactionary rightest scum, f'ing republthug, knuckle dragging Neanderthal, and many other unsavory adjectives by the progressive delusional left I am proud to say I come away reinforced in my beliefs that the founding fathers and Ayn Rand had it right after all.
To the bigoted, altruistic, and irrational left I must at this point say, piss off, I am through with trying to reason, or give further consideration to your delusional destructive BS!
Your constant class warfare, your constant justifying your hero Barrack Hussein Obama's policies, even when they mirror your hated past President George W. Bush is hypocritical and sickening. Those of you on the left, and you know of whom I speak each and every one of you, are nothing more than democratic socialist shills for the failed policies of this President, and past progressive presidents and congresses. Period.
Having said the above I withhold no criticism from the corrupt, anti-rational self interest Wall Street tycoons and RHINO republicans who are nothing more than welfare queens in business suits. Yeah, I get it. I get it well. So all you demigod progressive socialists who march in lock step to the fascist left agenda, and all you fake conservatives who march in lockstep with the neo con fascist agenda as well, America is on to you both.
The only real question is... Do the real patriots have the proverbial balls to do anything about it. Given past realities, and present indications the answer is likely not.
So lets just spin our wheels, repeat the same mistakes of the past, and then pat ourselves on the back for a job well done as DC burns. A bit like Roman history don't you think?
Whatever. Time marches on. No doubt the progressives and the neo cons will, while decrying the others methods, continue to march hand in hand down the same path to national destruction. It will be mutual, it will be complete, and it will be very sad.
But hey, what do I know? I am just a traveler on life's road who occasionally stops to notice the rampant irrationality of our altruistic driven society.
Thank you founding fathers and Ayn Rand for providing a sense of reason and rationality. Even if the majority have chosen not to listen.
Have a good week.
Consider the above Rational Nation USA's posts for the week of 4/4/11. This is my birthday week and therefore I am taking the week off to enjoy life, family, and the knowledge the above concepts are true, rational, and therefore correct. For they are consistent, rational and based on reason and not some emotional hodgepodge of feel good social collectivism. For those of you that don't understand this... all that can be said is... Oh well!
Cross posted to LCR
Rational Nation USA
Birthplace of Independent Conservatism
To the bigoted, altruistic, and irrational left I must at this point say, piss off, I am through with trying to reason, or give further consideration to your delusional destructive BS!
Your constant class warfare, your constant justifying your hero Barrack Hussein Obama's policies, even when they mirror your hated past President George W. Bush is hypocritical and sickening. Those of you on the left, and you know of whom I speak each and every one of you, are nothing more than democratic socialist shills for the failed policies of this President, and past progressive presidents and congresses. Period.
Having said the above I withhold no criticism from the corrupt, anti-rational self interest Wall Street tycoons and RHINO republicans who are nothing more than welfare queens in business suits. Yeah, I get it. I get it well. So all you demigod progressive socialists who march in lock step to the fascist left agenda, and all you fake conservatives who march in lockstep with the neo con fascist agenda as well, America is on to you both.
The only real question is... Do the real patriots have the proverbial balls to do anything about it. Given past realities, and present indications the answer is likely not.
So lets just spin our wheels, repeat the same mistakes of the past, and then pat ourselves on the back for a job well done as DC burns. A bit like Roman history don't you think?
Whatever. Time marches on. No doubt the progressives and the neo cons will, while decrying the others methods, continue to march hand in hand down the same path to national destruction. It will be mutual, it will be complete, and it will be very sad.
But hey, what do I know? I am just a traveler on life's road who occasionally stops to notice the rampant irrationality of our altruistic driven society.
Thank you founding fathers and Ayn Rand for providing a sense of reason and rationality. Even if the majority have chosen not to listen.
Have a good week.
Consider the above Rational Nation USA's posts for the week of 4/4/11. This is my birthday week and therefore I am taking the week off to enjoy life, family, and the knowledge the above concepts are true, rational, and therefore correct. For they are consistent, rational and based on reason and not some emotional hodgepodge of feel good social collectivism. For those of you that don't understand this... all that can be said is... Oh well!
Cross posted to LCR
Les, I do not think of you as "reactionary rightest scum, (an) f'ing republthug, knuckle dragging Neanderthal," or any "other unsavory adjectives."
ReplyDeleteI think you love your way of life and want to keep it that way. No problem with me. I think you are smart, thinking big things.
Your way of life, and your thinking, would significantly change under an Objectivist government.
Ayn Rand was essentially a social-Darwinist.
Be careful of that way of thinking. It's been tried. It does not work out well.
Oh, and as for Rand, Our Founders would've considered her a crazed radical - even back then. Our Founders understood the opportunities of the common man made for a great nation, not the luck of the rich.
JMJ
JMJ - You, like most who have not actually studied Rand uninhibited by todays sorry excuses for teachers and professors fail to understand Rand.
ReplyDeleteYour loss, not mine.
Beware of the socialist, humanitarian altruists.
On that note I am going to drag my knuckles to bed.
By the way, say hi to TAO, Truth 101 (or whatever he is calling himself these days}, Sue Shaw, and the rest of the flighty feel good hippie altruists.
You on the other hand have at least retained some semblance of rationality. That I respect.
PS: I have read and studied Rand in depth for years without the "guidance" of some crazed socialist or collectivist minded elitist numbskull professor telling how and what to think.
Imagine that. Guess the liberal fascists will have their work cut out trying to control us INDIVIDUAL THINKING people.
In a nutshell, I am now going to enjoy my rational self interest {AS IN THE VIRTUE OF SELFISHNESS} and tell the irrational humanitarian altruists to go live their life of selflessness.
See ya at the soda fountain.
As Atlas Shrugs.
Last time I checked TAO and TRUTH101 were NOT supporting Obama....in fact they were as vilified by the Obama supporters as they are by you.
ReplyDeleteYour basic trouble is that you are for all practical purposes a political hack, and you stated thus on Truth's blog when you discussed the "next election cycle."
The reality is that the world is bigger than just conservatives against liberals...and because everything is so black and white to you you see only conservatives and liberals.
Us against Them....which of course is bullshit because you will claim that GWB was one of them and you voted for him...not once but twice.
That then would, on a different political matrix make you one of them. But no, that can't be because you believe in the founding fathers and are a follower of Ayn Rand....
That is as big of an excuse as is the democrats claiming that it is the left that let Obama down.
If you truly want to understand our current political system and why progressives are fed up with Obama and the democrats (which you niavely assume means support for the candidate on the right) then read:
Democracy Incorporated: Managed Democracy and the Specter of Inverted Totalitarianism.
The concept of "lesser of two evils" and or liberals claiming to be pragmatic are covered quite well in this book....
TAO - Your reality TAO, or perhaps it is, in reality, evasion of the truth. Whatever I don't care.
ReplyDeleteIf I am a political hack you are a bigger one. Whatever, I don't care.
So take you reality, or evasion, or whatever it is off to DC and practice your political hackery until you have perfected it.
A conservative is not a republican but they could be. A progressive is not a communist but they could be. A neo con is not a fascist but they could be. An atheist is not immoral but they could be. A religious person is not immoral but they could be...
... Oh, everywhere following 'is not' add necessarily.
And you may being sincere or maybe not. At any rate I just don't care.
Oh, and may be you are sincere or maybe not....
ReplyDeleteA conservative IS a republican when they vote republican...a progressive can only be a communist if they vote for a communist....when was the last time we had communists on the ballot?
So, a conservative can be a republican when they vote republican and a progressive can be a democrat when they vote democrat...
There, cleaned up your logic for you....
If a progressive can be a totalitarian communist then a conservative can be an authoritarian fascist.
If you want to argue that totalitarian communism and authoritarian fascism are the same thing then logically so is conservative and progressives....
It is only appropriate that Obama worships Reagan...and he does. Because Reagan was not a conservative but rather a neo-liberal and since 1980 the battle has been between republican neo-liberals and democratic neo-liberals.....
So, Americans debate conservatives vs liberals within a political system that has neither....
You do not even acknowledge the absurdity of this comment "Your constant class warfare, your constant justifying your hero Barrack Hussein Obama's policies, even when they mirror your hated past President George W. Bush is hypocritical and sickening."
You voted for GWB TWICE and yet within your own criticism of the left shows that your position is just as "hypotcritical and sickening" because how can you criticize Obama, if his policies mirror a president that you supported with your vote not once but twice....
YADA, YADA, YADA...
ReplyDeleteLes,
ReplyDeleteDon't assume. I have "studied" Rand (not much to study really, I can't imagine the "depth" you put into it).
And TAO does make a very important point: It is a myth that liberals or conservatives have any real power in America. Conservatives have more than liberals, but not all that much in total.
In reality, we live in a republican corporatocracy, and really always have. Certain corporate sectors control the GOP, rather completely, while certain sectors more or less control the herd of cats that is the Democratic party. Most importantly though, Wall Street has a pretty firm grasp on BOTH parties, belying the stupid notion that Democrats are steering the nation economically dramatically different than do Republicans.
As I have often pointed out, the political debate in this country has been hyperbolized, as if liberals are communists and conservatives are fascists. In reality, the difference between an American conservative and a liberal is only a matter of degree. They are not polar opposites.
It fits the politicians' agenda to have liberals and conservatives fighting each other over silly hyperbolic nonsense while ignoring the real issues politicians engage.
As for Ayn Rand, I heard a joke some years ago that fits her perfectly: 'Atlas Shrugs is a book teenagers read and then they turn into dicks for a month.'
Rand's is not a serious politial philosophy. Rather she provides fodder for the pointless hyperbolic battle between left and right in America.
The wealthy are not de facto "producers." Rand is simply wrong about that. In fact, risk aversion studies show that the wealthier people become, the less risks they take, and the less producive they become. Hence the expression "idle rich."
The wealthy are not under any serious attack or abuse by any power in America. If anything, we now have an inordinate number of rich who wield inordinate political power. Again, Rand is wrong.
Rand was a product of a bygone mythical age in which capitalism and communism were battling for world. In reality, America never faced a serious threat from communism. It's a myth. But it was a useful myth for the establishment of assive police and miliary estates. The irony here, of course, is that the war against communism was used to build massive and powerful statist instutitions! Now Islam has been thrown into the mix, as international communism wains.
So, if you vote Republican, as TAO says, then really you are just a Republican, not a conservative or a libertarian.
JMJ
JMJ - The fact you are ignorant of the full body of Rand's work is of no concern to me.
ReplyDeleteNor is the fact that you, like most progressives, lack objectivity is of no concern to me either.
You see, I just don't by into your or TAO's irrational bullshit.
Nor do I have the time at 59 years of age to waste on your crap, nor your educated elitist altruistic collectivist bullshit that you attempt to feed America.
You and TAO frankly insult the natural intelligence of a 8 year old.
I have heretofore valued your "independent" and forthright commentary. However, since you have decided that progressive ignorance is bliss, like your buddy TAO, I at this point have no further comment.
Have a wonderfully altruistic, irrational, life.
Sadly, whether a liberal or conservative of conscience, we've both been used by both parties. We are forced to vote for what we perceive the lesser of two evils, or not vote. Or vote for Ralph Nader.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, happy birthday Les.
Joe,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the birthday wishes.
I understand your point and as a conservative of conscience I share your pain. And I thank you for acknowledging mine.
Perhaps, and this is long shot, someday we as a people will finally get it right.
Thank you for stopping in GCP. Your occasional visits are always welcome.
Even when you p*ss me of ;).
I was using a clicker to tally how many labels that you guys were using in this discussion. But it exploded!! I say get rid of ALL parties and just have one convention. The last 2 people standing - have them run for the office. And if anybody uses a label during the campaign, shoot 'em!.....Oh, wait a minute, that would make me a fascist, huh? LOL
ReplyDeleteWill, my good and rational friend... LOL ;).
ReplyDeleteLes: I have to share your disappointment at Democracy Central. It became nothing more that a stage for TAO to rant and rave like a mad man. Even his fellow travelers stopped visiting.
ReplyDeleteI loved how how he constantly railed against labels... While labeling everyone!
Lashing out at people instead of debating the points of discussion is the opposite of Socratic.
I studied Socrates, I could almost say he was a friend of mine, and TAO, you're no Socrates.
I really hoped it would be a forum for productive interchange... Stupid me.
The problem with many in Left Blogistan is that it's all or nothing. No middle ground. Sheria is one of the few who can engage without vitriol, which is ironic, because she really comes down hard on conservatives in her blog posts and is an excellent advocate for liberal causes.
http://theexaminedlife-sheria.blogspot.com/
I concur, gentlemen. As a moderate blogger, I have been far more pilloried by the left.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad I clicked through to the comments. Sounds like we should all agree to abandon Democracy Central to TAO where he can debate and label himself... And just meet at Rational Nation for regular, rational, conversations. All in favor?
ReplyDeleteSilver - You and I {and likely many others} have come to the same conclusion.
ReplyDeleteIt is a shame really because TAO actually has a lot to offer the political debate of our nation.
Sadly he is so bitter {or indoctrinated} that he fails to see he forest for the trees. I have no better way to characterize it.
That being said... We have our work cut out for us.
Will - I feel your pain :)
ReplyDeleteThe offer remains open.
It's amazing that a atheist from Communist Russia is the hero of the Republican Party.
ReplyDeleteLet's see what will happen Tuesday at the polls in Wisconsin. Giving the rich Carte Blanche and letting them do what ever they want doesn't work. The POTUS is not too good of a Socialist with the Dow above 12,000.00 and companies recording record profits. People now are BEGGING for Socialism or anything that will stop the rich from exploiting them. they can't use a fake Mosque at Ground Zero excuse to keep the people divided. Racism, xenophobia, homophobia, Islamaphobia, and sexism can't be used anymore. The Koch brother might be remembered as the people that helped bring Socialism to America. When Fox's high paid liars are caught calling the POTUS a Socialist it discredits the Republican Party. Lies about ACORN, Shirley Sharrod, and the Tea Party have woke up white working class people.
Kid: You third-grade talking points are hilarious!
ReplyDeleteNo one advocates letting the rich "do whatever they want." Who said that? Provide some facts to back your unfounded assertions.
So the dow doing well is a bad thing? Do you know that pension funds and millions of 401K's of hard working people are invested there? Do you really want a collapse of everyone's retirement funds?
People are begging for socialism? Prove it! We just had two years of government via firehose and the voters roundly rejected it, electing Republicans in a gigantic electoral wave, even more so at the state level.
Andrew Cuomo is governing New York like a fiscal conservative.
Also, please provide some examples of your alleged racism, homophobia (a republican gay rights group was a sponsor of this year's CPAC), xenophobia, islamophobia, sexism...
Lies? Again, some details, please.
You are trafficking in hollow talking points that are nothing but hot air.
Put up or shut up, this isn't the daily koz.
Kid - ROFLMAO, at you!
ReplyDeleteSilver - Your response to the "Kid" summed it up pretty well I think!
ReplyDeleteKid: 0
ReplyDeleteSilver: 1
I wonder if there will be a rematch? I'll bring popcorn and beer.
Donald in Bethel, CT
Donald - "The Kid" won't be back. Silver crushed him.
ReplyDeleteHe's now just a jelly fish, floating away with the progressive altruistic current.
Amazing what a few more years experience and a fully cognizant, aware, and open mind can ultimately lead to.
ReplyDeleteTruth
Better Understanding
Less Judgemental
More Accepting of Diversity
Elimination of Hate
Greater Openness
And the list goes on. It ultimately leads to the dumping of false reified conservative arritudes and "values".