It Is Time To Create A New Playbook To Control Firearms and Eliminate School Massacres......
Lets take a look at President Trump's White House listening session hosted Wednesday with students and families affected by the Parkland school shooting.
How about installing metal detectors at authorized entrances at schools and placing two trained individuals with concealed weapons at entry points Mr. President. This could be expanded to all after school activities and events as well.
Or, you could detect and confiscate before gunfire breaks out. Be creative. It's worth a try.
Neither do we Sam. But we're pretty sure it has something to with the NRA, the firearms lobby, and a gutless republican congress. They stand on the 2'nd Amendment while kids are killed in their place of learning. BTW, until today Trump has essentially supported the insanity.
Taking a look at the President's listening session with students and families affected by the Parkland school shooting, as well as a few additional suggestions.
Here is what he told the NRA.
With all due respect Mr. President perhaps the following might help.
A) With input from the governors develop and implement a uniform national regulatory standard for firearm control.
B) improve federal and state background checks, including mental illness.
C) Require psychological testing to determine if applicant is stable enough to own and use a firearm.
D) Require both intensive classroom and field training in safety and proper use of firearms.
E) Require booth written and practical exams to be passed with a 90% or better score to receive license.
F) Following completion of requirements and approval for licensing require a 30 day waiting period before purchase of a firearm.
G) Require relicensing every three years.
H) Make illegal to purchase or own the following... bump stocks, high capacity drums and magazines, semi automatic assault style weapons, and consider capping the amount of ammo a person can purchase yearly for each firearm.
Just a few ideas. Some we know are controversial. Given our present national disgrace isn't it time to start thinking beyond the paraneters we've been told for years we must accept as "normal"?
Via: Memeorandum
Trump voiced support for the idea during an emotional White House meeting with students who survived the shooting and a parent whose child did not.
“If you had a teacher ... who was adept at firearms, it could very well end the attack very quickly,” said Trump, who acknowledged the idea would be controversial.
How about installing metal detectors at authorized entrances at schools and placing two trained individuals with concealed weapons at entry points Mr. President. This could be expanded to all after school activities and events as well.
“If you had a teacher ... who was adept at firearms, it could very well end the attack very quickly,” said Trump, who acknowledged the idea would be controversial.
Or, you could detect and confiscate before gunfire breaks out. Be creative. It's worth a try.
“I don’t understand why I can still go in a store and buy a weapon of war, an AR,” said Sam Zeif, 18, sobbing after he described texting his family members during the Florida shooting.
Neither do we Sam. But we're pretty sure it has something to with the NRA, the firearms lobby, and a gutless republican congress. They stand on the 2'nd Amendment while kids are killed in their place of learning. BTW, until today Trump has essentially supported the insanity.
Taking a look at the President's listening session with students and families affected by the Parkland school shooting, as well as a few additional suggestions.
”We’re going to be very strong on background checks, we’re doing very strong background checks, very strong emphasis on the
mental health,” Trump said.
“It’s not going to be talk like it has been in the past,” Trump said.
Here is what he told the NRA.
“I am here to deliver you good news: the eight-year assault on your Second Amendment freedoms has come to a crashing end.
The NRA spent more than $30 million to help Trump get elected.
With all due respect Mr. President perhaps the following might help.
A) With input from the governors develop and implement a uniform national regulatory standard for firearm control.
B) improve federal and state background checks, including mental illness.
C) Require psychological testing to determine if applicant is stable enough to own and use a firearm.
D) Require both intensive classroom and field training in safety and proper use of firearms.
E) Require booth written and practical exams to be passed with a 90% or better score to receive license.
F) Following completion of requirements and approval for licensing require a 30 day waiting period before purchase of a firearm.
G) Require relicensing every three years.
H) Make illegal to purchase or own the following... bump stocks, high capacity drums and magazines, semi automatic assault style weapons, and consider capping the amount of ammo a person can purchase yearly for each firearm.
Just a few ideas. Some we know are controversial. Given our present national disgrace isn't it time to start thinking beyond the paraneters we've been told for years we must accept as "normal"?
Via: Memeorandum
”We’re going to be very strong on background checks, we’re doing very strong background checks..."
ReplyDeleteSaid the guy whose many White House staff are serving without security clearances, including his son-in-law who gets to read highly classified memos without a security clearance.
I never believe anything the Dotard-in-Chief says.
Any concrete idea's we should advance from the left? Or, the middle?
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteA read for liberals (as well as all those ideologically supercharged) to digest and consider.
RN, people have had good ideas only to have them shot down by NRA supported pols and presidents (pun intended). After the Nevada slaughter we heard bump stocks would be outlawed because even the NRA leadership agreed with that small step. But nothing happened. Universal background checks was proposed. Nothing happened. So you can well understand why people are emotional at this point. They've seen too many massacres (which of course do get more mass media coverage than suicides and one-on-one shootings because they happend in places where Americans never felt threatened with murder: churches? schools? movie theaters? malls? That instills fear in all of us. Are we safe when we see movies? Will our children be safe in their schools? The human mind doesn't think "Oh, well, that's a statistical improbability, our human minds tell us that it is a possibility. But for Dana Louche to claim that media love carnage because it gets ratings is a heartless and shocking lie. Train wrecks and hurricanes get just as much media coverage. She's an awful person.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the best way is to inculcate the nation with positive no nonsense ideas, form think tanks and partner with the media to bombard the nation with ideas. Send a deluge of letters and calls to your congress critter and senator, etc. The negative is killing the debate and I see both sides missing the opportunity to steer the nation towards sanity again.
ReplyDeleteThe NRA can be neutered. But it must be accomplished from pressure of the membership and voters.
Dana is eye candy for the NRA. Nothing more.
I'm all for this... The era of trump is changing my mind on many things.
ReplyDeleteI see a willingness for dialogue here that the NRA and other absolutists not necessarily also on the right are not willing to engage in.
Honest respectful dialogue is always welcome and a pleasant change from what seems to be more the norm these days.
DeleteI'm all for this... The era of trump is changing my mind on many things.
DeleteYou comment on that Latte gun nut blog any more dmarks? What about registration and confiscation? Either of these worry you as much as it seems they used to?
Good question ... I quit it a long time ago. A year, two, or three?
DeleteNo, neither worries me as much now.
I don't think many people want to hear my views on this subject -- outrage has a way of blinding people to unpleasant practical realities. I suspect you're one of the few exceptions, so I'll give it a shot here.
ReplyDelete1) Nothing is going to get done as long as politicians beholden to the NRA (some Democrats and almost all Republicans) hold enough power to have an effective veto -- that is, either until the Democrats regain most of the levers of power in Washington, or until enough NRA-bought politicians have the shit scared out of them by mobilized voters that they realize all that NRA money can't buy them re-election unless they shift on the issue.
2) I support most of the measures liberals have proposed, such as background checks and bans on sales to categories of people reasonably judged to be potentially dangerous. There's no basis for objecting to such measures, but I don't think they'd do much good. People who want a gun badly enough will always manage to get one (or make one). Yes, such controls work in other countries, but the US is said to have 300 million guns in private hands, and the real number is probably two or three times that. It's a unique situation.
3) I agree with your proposed option for schools -- armed guards. This is what Israel does (they have fairly strict gun control, but the threat of terrorist attacks on schools is ever-present), and it's what we do in other situations where security is needed, such as banks. Arming teachers is a stupid idea because armed security is a completely different skill set than what teachers have. Banks don't arm their tellers, they hire professional guards.
4) It has to be made clear by all parties to the debate that the idea of disarming the general public is completely off the table, now and forever. Any suggestion that such a thing might seriously be attempted could provoke a conflict that could destroy the country. It doesn't matter what anybody thinks of this fact. It remains a fact. Smart liberals like Obama and Hillary know this, which is why they've always shied away from any attempt to tamper with core Second Amendment rights.
5) Tragically, I think we may have to go through a phase of implementing all the controls the liberal side wants and then discovering that these measures make no difference to the frequency of mass shootings. Once that sinks in, we either (a) go for a total ban on guns, resulting in Civil War II and the final collapse of the US, leaving Japan and Germany in charge of the free world and its defense, or (b) start implementing measures like armed guards in schools that will actually work. I think we'll be wise enough to choose (b), but I don't think we'll be wise enough to do it without wasting a lot of time on gun-control options which, while reasonable enough, won't actually alleviate the problem.
Thank you for giving it a shot Infidel. I may very well be one of the fee exceptions, although if that be true I owe it to my parents and my experience working with and managing some very intuitive and exceptionally effective people.
DeleteIn general I agree with your points. As it is getting late and I'm very tired I will respond more specifically this weekend.
Again Infidel thanks for giving it a shot and responding. It is, IMO, folks like you who will ultimately arrive at a workable and effective solution.
Infidel753: I think we may have to go through a phase of implementing all the controls the liberal side wants...
DeleteThis won't happen.
Infidel753: ...and then discovering that these measures make no difference to the frequency of mass shootings.
If you had to be 21 to buy a gun then high schoolers would be able to buy guns. I think that would have SOME effect.
Dervish: If you had to be 21 to buy a gun then high schoolers would be able to buy guns. I think that would have SOME effect. (I assume you meant "would not be able.....")
DeleteI really don't think so. Somebody who has decided to commit mass murder would be determined to get a gun even if he had to do so illegally, and the country is flooded with hundreds of millions of them. I think the Parkland murderer was 17, which is already below the legal age, but that didn't stop him. One way for an underage person to get a gun is to steal it from his parents. Underage people get alcohol and marijuana easily enough.
I don't see any reason why we shouldn't raise the legal age to buy a gun. We probably should. But I don't expect it would actually reduce the frequency of mass shootings.
He was 18 and obtained his AR legally. That's what I've been hearing on the news, at least. The "people who are determined to break the law will find a way" argument is specious. The objective is to deter a percentage of people. That's all any law can do to "stop" crime (we can't stop, only deter). Not everyone knows where to go, has the money, etc to buy a gun illegally.
DeleteTwo things must happen before anything changes as Infidel pointed out. 1) We must neutralize the influence of the NRA and 2) It must be understood and accepted by the left that a citizens right to keep and bear arms will never be infrin9 up. As a former hunter and sportsman I strongly support the 2'nd... With Restrictions.
ReplyDeleteThe idea of making the legal age to purchase and own a 21 probably have a statistically insignificant effect. But if that were to be done I could support it if... The age to join the military is raised to 21 at the same time.
Infidel is possibly right, we may go through the laundry list of ideas before we hit paydirt. I too believe America will ultimately be wise enough to ultimately make the right decision. For America's right wing conservatives it will take a longer time w/out a doubt.
Excellent discussion, RN.
ReplyDeleteInfidel753 and RN, your ideas have merit. I agree with the first step: defang the NRA. Once upon a time, that oranization was a force for good -- it taught people gun safety and responsibility. That is not its main thrust today. Today the NRA stands for unfettered, unlimited access to all kinds of guns and ammo for everyone, which it has intractably promoted. An organization that can force state governments to write laws that forbid pediatricians from asking if parents have guns in the home and if they keep them safe, and laws that forbid the study of firearms deaths is not an organization for good, it's a gun mafiosa with goons to intimidate and keep politicians in line with its agenda.
ReplyDeleteI have come to accept that we will never be rid of guns, that is a fact. It's too late to shut that barn door. But what Infidel753 and RN propose makes sense and may have a chance if we continue to put pressure on our representatives and continue to keep working toward the objectives that can reasonably be implemented.
Last fall my 13 year old granddaugher was in a lock-down in her middle school because a student had brought a gun to school. He showed it to another student who, in turn, reported it to a teacher. The gun was not loaded, but still somehow a middle school student was able to get his hands on it. My granddaughter and all her friends were scared and for two hours didn't know whether they were in mortal danger or not. This should not be a school experience for any school child at any age.
I propose heavy fines and even some jail time for adults who keep firearms in the home and do not have them safely locked away from children who then get hold of those firearms and cause mayhem. There's another suggestion.
All we parents and grandparents have to combat this lunacy is our vote. We need to use it wisely, or these massacres will continue.
Puke
DeleteNow that is the most intellectually profound statement yet. We hope the strain placed on your 1/2 watt brain didn't cause it to short circuit.
DeleteOur recommendation is that you scurry on back to WYD and plug in for further programming additions.
Nothing to disagree with in comments by RN and Shaw here.
ReplyDeleteIn an ideal world children would not need to go through lock-downs, shooting-defense drills, and suchlike events. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world. Children in Israel have had to live with frightening security precautions for as long as that country has existed. European children during World War II (including my parents) lived through years of even scarier aerial bombing. One could come up with many more examples. In the case of World War II, the danger was eventually eliminated (in western Europe) by destroying the Nazi regime. In the case of terrorism in Israel, or our mass-murder problem, the nature of the root causes make the menace unlikely to go away in the foreseeable future, though the authorities do what they can to mitigate it.
I really think the problem is more a toxic culture than anything. Countries like Japan, Britain, Scandinavia, etc. have far lower rates of gun killings that we do, and liberals here like to attribute that to gun-control laws -- but they also have much lower rates of murder using other weapons, and lower rates of violent crime in general. They are simply healthier and less violent cultures. Culture can change, but more slowly than laws do, and in most cases government can have only marginal effects.
I will say that the determination and activism of the Parkland students and their supporters is inspiring and exhilarating. It was wonderful to see Rubio called to account by that young man in front of a huge crowd, for example. Even if the specific legal measures they are pushing for are unlikely to have much impact on gun violence, they will probably help defeat even more Republicans at the ballot box this November -- which will benefit the whole country, including them, in many ways.
Sorry but I Dissagree with EVERYTHING that both Shaw and RN say, and think !
DeleteEVERYTHING
Really, thank you so very much for confirming for us that you in fact don't think.
DeleteNow, if you had the intellectual capacity to provide the reasons why you disagree, coupled with relational alternatives for discussion we certainly would welcome such dialogue.
When you develop the ability to do so try posting again. Until then you remain banished from posting here.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI honestly don't think I'll see significant and lasting change in my remaining years. You are correct Infidel, cultural change takes time. My hope is that the milennials and succeeding generations will effect the needed changes to cultural norms.
ReplyDeleteMore immediate is the need to hold republicans in Congress accountable in 2018 for their dishonesty and manipulation of the people. The same is critical for 2020.
ReplyDeleteTOMSun Feb 25, 04:21:00 PM EST
Sorry but I Dissagree with EVERYTHING that both Shaw and RN say, and think !
EVERYTHING
TOM just afforded RN and me the greatest compliment one could ever hope to secure. There is not one issue TOM agrees with that RN and I agree on, and I thank Darwin for that every day.
We must be doing a helluva lot correctly, RN!
👍☺👍☺👍
DeleteI'd add criminal penalties for those in law enforcement and other agencies who blow off threats and also fail to complete the background checks as required. Wasn't there one of the recent mass shootings in which someone was able to get a gun because someone in government was too lazy to do the necessary background check which would have failed? I forget which one, however.
ReplyDeleteMost of your alphabetic list A-H (the ones in the middle) can be rendered useless by negligent government employees who take handsome sums from taxpayers to protect public safety and snooze instead of doing what they were paid to do. Holding them accountable to actually do the job they were entrusted and paid to do might be quite necessary.