Saturday, April 12, 2014

Democrats and Voter Fraud, is There Any Ethics Anymore?...

One of my regulars who frequently comments and always challenges that which she perceives is inaccurate or purely partisan challenged this site (me) to research and provide evidence that voter fraud is a serious problem that has effected presidential elections.

Shaw KenaweSat Apr 12, 08:55:00 AM EDT

"To be balanced the president should address democratic voter fraud,"

Okay. Fair enough. Could you tell us what the percentage of voter fraud is? We have approximately 100 million eligible voters. What is the percentage of voter fraud, say over the last 30 years, and how has it affected presidential elections. If you and the GOP say this is a serious problem, we need to see the evidence that it IS a serious problem.

As this site more often than views things in a shall we say more philosophical and ethical perspective rather than a outcome perspective as things are or have been the last 30 ears responded s follows.

Rational Nation USASat Apr 12, 09:23:00 AM EDT

My posistion has always been clear, voter fraud, regardless of how prevalent must be addressed. Fraud is like a cancer, left untreated it spreads and becomes more pervasive. Even accepted in some, perhaps many circles.

I'm getting too old and too tired to care much anymore. Besides, nothing you, I, or any other average American thinks or does will make a difference. The corruption in both political parties is slowly destroying our national character.

As I am sure the more astute libertarian and fiscally conservative readers of this site understand is that voter fraud, irrespective of which party is quilty will, if ignored continue to metastasize and like a cancer completely corrupt our democratic republic. Which BTW in my never humble opinion is rapidly turning into an Oligarchy. But that is a subject for another day.

I am very busy with the important things in life and haven't the time right now to spend the amount of time Shaw would have me spend detailing and comment on all the specifics incidents to which I referred.

In the interest of good faith I shall simply link to that which concerns me. Shaw, I am sure will read the links and as she always is may feel welcome to respond to specific links.

Another Case of Voter Fraud in a Texas Democrat Primary?

Democrats Honor Vote Fraud Criminal in Cincinnati

Woman Just Released From Prison for Voter Fraud is Honored by Ohio Democratic Party

WOW! Al Sharpton & Democrats Honor Convicted Voter Fraud Felon Melowese Richardson at “Welcome Home” PartyWOW! Al Sharpton & Democrats Honor Convicted Voter Fraud Felon Melowese Richardson at “Welcome Home” Party

Ohio Democratic Party should rescind endorsement of group promoting voter fraud

Dems’ Voter-Fraud Denial

Before I move on I will highlight that I have never said, nor will I ever say, that voter fraud is unique to just the democratic party or that parties (both) don't attempt yo suppress the vote in their parties self interest at times. What peeves me, and it is the point of a prior post, is that Democrats/Progressives in their holier than thou rhetoric will never admit to the truth IMNHO.

As I patiently await replies from my esteemed colleagues of the opposite political persuasion.

Via: Rational Nation USA


  1. Three of your links reference the Richardson case. here's a situation where fraud was committed by one individual and she was prosecuted and jailed.
    Now if you think that is evidence of a "serious problem" sufficient to disenfranchise voters then we just see the world differently.

    The goal of voter ID laws is to disenfranchise voters, pure and simple.

  2. I think that both sides of this issue have exaggerated; the right in terms of the prevalence of voter fraud (in person voter fraud, especially) and the left as it regards the effects of voter ID laws on suppressing the vote (American University did a study in which they found out that over 98% of all voters already have a pictured ID). My suggestion is that all of the new registered voters should get a picture ID and everybody else could simply give the last 4 digits of their SS#. That way nobody gets severely inconvenienced and the integrity of the vote can still be maintained.

    1. That seems simple and workable.

    2. There are more attacks than just voter ID, though. From the ACLU (and this is just news, not opinion):

      "Three additional states passed laws to require documentary proof of citizenship in order to register to vote, though as many as 7 percent of American citizens do not have such proof. Seven states shortened early voting time frames, even though over 30 percent of all votes cast in the 2008 general election were cast before Election Day. Two state legislatures voted to repeal Election Day registration laws, though Election Day registration increases voter turnout by 10-12 percent. Finally, two states passed legislation making it much more difficult for third-party organizations to register voters – so difficult, in fact, that some voter registration organizations are leaving the states altogether."

      The GOP is actively working to suppress voter turn-out because they know they are a minority party - the broader the constituency, the less likely they are to win elections. These guy are clinging to power as it is now. In the near future, they're just not going to be able to do it anymore. One more census, guys, and this is going to end.


  3. Those are the examples (1 1/2 examples, maybe?) you point up? Really?

    Are you paying any attention at all to what the Republicans have been up to lately? Follow the Supreme Court much these days? Are you really going to sit there and equivocate with those outright silly examples? The GOP is already a minority party, over-represented in the House, clinging to legislative relevance. They better hope they don't win the Senate in 2014, because if they do, they will lose everything in 2016.

    These guys are doing the same thing the Democrats did in the ol' bad Decline of The Machine days of the 70's and 80's, and I'm sure you didn't think that was a good thing at the time. As I'm sure you recall, a lot of them went to prison when it was all said and done. Widespread institutional voter fraud from the top down, not the other way around, has a long, colorful, storied history in this country.

    Right now, in the real world where we live, the GOP is, and has been for a while now, pulling most of the strings on the local, state, and federal level elections, via majorities of positions in all three estates. A wise man would be keeping an eye where it belongs, not on silly anecdotes.


  4. .

    "Are you paying any attention at all to what the Republicans have been up to lately?"

    Of course RN is. RN is only playing at "both side are equally evil" provocateur.

    "Right now, in the real world where we live, the GOP is, and has been for a while now, pulling most of the strings on the local, state, and federal level elections, via majorities of positions in all three estates."


    Ema Nymton

    1. Although it appears you choose to ignore the point I make thanks for your comment. ka-ching.

  5. There's the North Carolina case...

    But this misses Les's point. First of, by definition, successful voter fraud is undetected, so you won't be hearing news about it.

    Leftwing Democrats love throwing in our faces how Europe and the rest of the world does this or that, bla bla bla, but we're tho only industrialized nation that doesn't (fill in the blank, provide health care, etc)

    Well lefties, we are damn near the only nation on earth that does not have a uniform ironclad election law that requires people to prove who they are before voting, and that, among many other things, makes us one of the stupidest nations on earth.

  6. "The republican party at one time did stand for principle, even as late as the 60's, 70's, and early 80's. It has been down hill since for the party and likely it is now so far gone the party is beyond the point of no return.

    The words were written … not by some loony leftist, “libtard,” or pig-headed progressive … but by our very own RN in response to this post by Captain Fogg (@ 12:49 PM, October 25, 2013). Has our “independent libertarian” suddenly joined forces with the dog whistle brigade?

    You devote SIX LINKS to TWO ISOLATED CASES, i.e., the cases of Andres Martinez and Melowese Richardson, thereby creating an overall impression that these TWO CASES represent pervasive phenomenon committed exclusively by Democrats.

    If you poke under the hood and delve more deeply into the facts, you might have considered THIS REPORT, a tacit admission by Republicans themselves:

    Republicans enjoy a 33-seat margin in the U.S. House seated yesterday in the 113th Congress, having endured Democratic successes atop the ticket and over one million more votes cast for Democratic House candidates than Republicans.”

    Consider: ONE MILLION MORE VOTES CAST FOR HOUSE DEMOCRATS, YET REPUBLICANS GAINED A 33 SEAT MAJORITY! How is this possible? The answer, of course, is “gerrymandering,” a method of redistricting that guarantees an electoral result regardless of how votes are cast. Most shocking of all, Republicans are proud of this accomplishment … proud of having violated the principle of “one man one vote” by gaming the system.


  7. (continued)

    Both sides do what they can to encourage turnout amongst their respective constituencies. But when tactics turn from encouraging one's own voters to vote versus setting up legal barriers to cripple and prevent the opposition from “getting out the vote,” then that is something far nastier … especially when those most directly impacted by such barriers were similarly barred from voting when Jim Crow Laws disenfranchised them for most of this country's history.

    In my home state of Florida, case in point, voters can have their eligibility challenged for any reason, and challenged voters must vote provisionally and then must present proof of eligibility to have their votes counted. Voters in Missouri can be challenged at any time. Anyone can challenge the eligibility of a voter in Pennsylvania, and while the challenger must provide a reason for the challenge, he does not have to provide evidence supporting that reason. Eligibility challenges are often based on residence—that is, a voter does not live at the address given on the voter rolls—and groups have often used "caging" (in which mass mailings are sent out and returned mail used to challenge a voter's eligibility) to purge voter rolls. This is of particular concern in states such as Florida and Arizona, which have high rates of foreclosure, and among military personnel who deploy overseas.

    I am not casting aspersions on anyone’s asparagus, but there is a huge difference between “isolated” examples versus a calculated strategy to change election outcomes by gaming the system. How serious is the problem of voter fraud, you ask?


  8. (continued)

    Lets examine the case of Ohio. In 2008 and again in 2012, statewide “voter caging challenges” yielded 600,000 names out of 3 million, amounting to 19.7% of total registered voters. Not one challenged vote was ever proven to be fraudulent. Nationally, actual voter fraud is estimated to be less than .0006 percent – well below the trace threshold of Argon gas in the atmosphere; yet up to 20% of the population is threatened with disenfranchisement (source). Ohio Republicans have proposed legislation that would punish colleges for enabling their students to vote.

    According to the League of Women Voters, voter ID laws disenfranchise:

    African-Americans - 25%
    Americans over retirement age - 18%
    Americans with disabilities – 10%
    Low-income voters – 15%

    In the State of Wisconsin, the Scott Walker regime has lengthened registration hours in Republican districts and shortened hours in Democratic districts (Reflections of a GOP Operative Who Left the Cult.

  9. (continued)

    Florida Governor Rick Scott allegedly hired an “absentee ballot broker” (a boleteros who guarantees votes for money); yet he has refused to release a list of 186,000 names targeted for purging.

    In North Carolina, the Tea Party regime has disenfranchised college students by no longer allowing them to vote on campus. Why? Because college students vote Democratic by a ratio of 2:1.

    These initiatives – ostensibly to root out so-called election fraud - are designed to target specific Democratic constituencies and game the system for partisan advantage. These are deliberate acts of voter suppression and a betrayal of democracy.

    Instead of taking a hard look at voter suppression, I believe you sacrificed independence and objectivity on the alter of partisan “dog whistle” talking and stalking points. To say that I am disappointed would be an understatement.

  10. RN: "I am very busy with the important things in life and haven't the time right now to spend the amount of time Shaw would have me spend detailing and comment on all the specifics incidents to which I referred. "

    I understand.

    But Les, you are the only person on this board who knows why I cannot spend the amount of time to challenge what you've posted, so I am grateful to (O)CT(O)PUS for the time he took to explain how the GOP is systematically disenfranchising minority voters.

    I'm curious to read how Les and SF will respond to what (O)CT(O)PUS documented.

    1. Shaw,I did not expect you would respond right away because I do know.

      Thank you (O)CT(O)PUS for your remarks.

      I find Voter Fraud (something reasonable voter ID would address) unethical at any level, I believe I stated why. It is an ethical, moral, and philosophical issue with me.

      Votet Suppression is as unethical as Voter Fraud and so is gerrymandering for that matter.

      This post was specific to Democratic Voter Fraud and the apparent acceptance by some that it is no big deal. I disagree.

      Perhaps one day I'll do a post on voter suppression by republicans. But as you accomplsed that I'm not sure it is neccessary.

      I remain opposed to Voter Fraud and any corruption in the election process. But, as long as there are corrupt political parties the corrupt individuals leading them will continue with the shenanigans.

  11. RN,
    Voter fraud is not unethical. It happens to be ILLEGAL; and if you read the link provided by BB-Idaho, you will find that allegations of voter fraud – while many - far outweigh the number of prosecutions. Furthermore, there is no evidence whatsoever of any partisan conspiracies behind these isolated incidents of voter fraud. It makes no sense disenfranchising millions of voters just to capture a .0006% incidence rate of voter fraud, unless you smell a rat. And the rat is victory at all cost with lots of sound bites to cover up the crime.

    What I have documented: A clear and pervasive pattern of partisan bias in the conduct of elections that came about since the Tea Party victory of 2010. This pattern targets, not isolated cases of voter fraud, but specific voting blocks in districts with traditionally strong Democratic majorities. Just because the targeted party is not of your liking, this is no excuse for casting a blind eye on the evidence, dismissing the rights of citizenship, or proffering this excuse:

    Perhaps one day I'll do a post on voter suppression by republicans. But as you accomplsed [sic] that I'm not sure it is neccessary.

    In other words, a cop out infused with platitudes about honesty and integrity but no citations or arguments to the contrary.

    Note: Before anyone accuses me of quoting partisan sources, please take note: One reference is a GOP website; and the other quotes a GOP critic. Yes, there are good Republicans – intellectually honest ones like Mike Lofgren – who take their party to task for employing chicanery and deception for the sole purpose of winning elections – even if it means violating the integrity of the election process.

    Are you willing to let partisan dog whistles leave you tone deaf?

  12. Noted.

    Voter Fraud is indeed illegal, as well as unethical.

    Suppressing the vote is unethical, it should be illegal.

    Tone deaf? Partisan? That's funny. Inaccurate, but funny nonetheless (O)CT(O)PUS.

  13. I like Will's comment in which he shows some sort of balance between those who claim the problem is bigger than it is, and those who claim there is none.

    Those politicians who want no need for any sort of proper ID at all are shown to be hypocrites when they support the mandated requirements for having proper ID to use Obamacare.


    Claims of gerrymandering are a sort of sour-grapes from those who lose actual elections by getting fewer votes. Nothing that is ever done with a district can, or has "violated" the principle of “one man one vote”. The Democrats are just often unhappy that they can't gerrymander as much as they want (and they also often demand specifically racist gerrymandering, as well) .The fact is, that if you look at the "red county vs blue county" map, Republicans have huge stretches of country, and Democrats have more of the tiny concentrated urban areas. And it would take a lot of creative mapping (i.e. gerrymandering) to get what the Democrats want.

    Besides, it has nothing to do with election fraud.

  14. So, why do the same people who believe they can 'solve' our health care 'crisis' by hijacking a large chunk of our economy suddenly go stupid when confronted with the relatively simple problem of obtaining picture ID for the elderly, the shut-ins and the poor?

  15. I think that the Rhode Island law is a good one in that it helps to ensure the integrity of the vote but it doesn't do it in a way that suppresses the vote or inconveniences people. I'd be quite curious to see if people like Shaw would be willing to entertain legislation along these lines.

    1. And it was passed by a Democratic House and Senate and signed into law by an independent governor (the exceedingly liberal, Lincoln Chafee).


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