On Partisan Politics, Personal Attack Tactics, and Truth...
by: Les Carpenter
Rational Nation USA
Purveyor of Truth
This site, and by extension its proprietor, is a stanch fiscal conservative. By we means balancing the national budget and spending the national treasure (of course this means taxpayer dollars) in the best interest of the legal citizens of the United States of America as determined by their elected representatives in Congress. Our democratic republic was designed to do just that. However, in order to accomplish that proper goal of government the influence of money and special interests must be eradicated, a subject for another day.
Partisan politics in the extreme supported by the strategy of personal attack politics and take no prisoners mentality has become the order of the day and nowhere is it more prevalent than the internet, particularly on right wing sites. Yes there certainly are left leaning sites that are guilty of extreme partisanship and irrational conclusions based on personal bias etc., but, after nearly 5 and 1/2 years blogging I have found by far more conservative sites engaging in personal attacks against liberals, outright slander, bigotry, racism, and unethical behavior than liberal progressive sites doing the same.
A rational person can only conclude that personal attacks and the rest are simply the symptoms of an individual, or a subset within a culture or broader society that lacking substantive argument in support of their position, as well as being fearful of changing times resorts to personal attack, slander, and outright lies, in an attempt to gain support and preserve that which they are comfortable with. Their lack of intellectual honesty and the willful attempt to destroy a person through slander and character assassination apparently is of no consequence to them.
While this site, and its proprietor advocates and supports true fiscal responsibility and true conservative fiscal policy, zero special interest, open competitive economic policy with a reasonable degree of regulation etc. it also strongly believes that America as a whole must rise above partisan politics and that all legal citizens must be heard and represented. Now here's the rub, in order to achieve this it means our liberal brothers and sisters must be heard and listened to by us just as we expect them to hear and listen to us.
If this nation is to survive and prosper another 200 plus years it must get beyond the present day take no prisoners and winner take all mentality. Since I am a fiscal conservative as well as a social libertarian I believe hat true rational conservatives and libertarians must lead the way in any effort to get beyond our present dismal situation. In plain talking language this means we must clean up our own backyard before going after others. There is a lot of cleaning up to do.
After witnessing over the last few days some very nasty and slanderous right wing site going after honest and sincere American liberals this site has decided enough is enough. In the effort to expose conservative/libertarian sites who slander, demean, and otherwise attempt to destroy the character of those they simply disagree with yet present no proof of their slanderous claims they will be exposed here.
The first two sites deemed deserving of exposure for their slander, bigotry, racism. and other unethical behavior are; Who's Your Daddy, and FreeThinke. In perusing these sites one of the two has scrubbed the most vile and damaging comments. Hopefully this is an indication the site proprietor has suddenly grown a conscience and the sites behavior will become honorable, as a conservative site should be. At any rate these sites represent the worst in conservative sites, at least at the present. As this site scours the bowels of conservative sites to uncover the unethical sites in right blogistan it is anticipated more, perhaps many, will surface. They will be exposed as this is necessary if conservatism is to regain the high ground. We must root out our own bad actors if we are to ever again be a majority party,
Rational Nation USA
Purveyor of Truth
This site, and by extension its proprietor, is a stanch fiscal conservative. By we means balancing the national budget and spending the national treasure (of course this means taxpayer dollars) in the best interest of the legal citizens of the United States of America as determined by their elected representatives in Congress. Our democratic republic was designed to do just that. However, in order to accomplish that proper goal of government the influence of money and special interests must be eradicated, a subject for another day.
Partisan politics in the extreme supported by the strategy of personal attack politics and take no prisoners mentality has become the order of the day and nowhere is it more prevalent than the internet, particularly on right wing sites. Yes there certainly are left leaning sites that are guilty of extreme partisanship and irrational conclusions based on personal bias etc., but, after nearly 5 and 1/2 years blogging I have found by far more conservative sites engaging in personal attacks against liberals, outright slander, bigotry, racism, and unethical behavior than liberal progressive sites doing the same.
A rational person can only conclude that personal attacks and the rest are simply the symptoms of an individual, or a subset within a culture or broader society that lacking substantive argument in support of their position, as well as being fearful of changing times resorts to personal attack, slander, and outright lies, in an attempt to gain support and preserve that which they are comfortable with. Their lack of intellectual honesty and the willful attempt to destroy a person through slander and character assassination apparently is of no consequence to them.
While this site, and its proprietor advocates and supports true fiscal responsibility and true conservative fiscal policy, zero special interest, open competitive economic policy with a reasonable degree of regulation etc. it also strongly believes that America as a whole must rise above partisan politics and that all legal citizens must be heard and represented. Now here's the rub, in order to achieve this it means our liberal brothers and sisters must be heard and listened to by us just as we expect them to hear and listen to us.
If this nation is to survive and prosper another 200 plus years it must get beyond the present day take no prisoners and winner take all mentality. Since I am a fiscal conservative as well as a social libertarian I believe hat true rational conservatives and libertarians must lead the way in any effort to get beyond our present dismal situation. In plain talking language this means we must clean up our own backyard before going after others. There is a lot of cleaning up to do.
After witnessing over the last few days some very nasty and slanderous right wing site going after honest and sincere American liberals this site has decided enough is enough. In the effort to expose conservative/libertarian sites who slander, demean, and otherwise attempt to destroy the character of those they simply disagree with yet present no proof of their slanderous claims they will be exposed here.
The first two sites deemed deserving of exposure for their slander, bigotry, racism. and other unethical behavior are; Who's Your Daddy, and FreeThinke. In perusing these sites one of the two has scrubbed the most vile and damaging comments. Hopefully this is an indication the site proprietor has suddenly grown a conscience and the sites behavior will become honorable, as a conservative site should be. At any rate these sites represent the worst in conservative sites, at least at the present. As this site scours the bowels of conservative sites to uncover the unethical sites in right blogistan it is anticipated more, perhaps many, will surface. They will be exposed as this is necessary if conservatism is to regain the high ground. We must root out our own bad actors if we are to ever again be a majority party,
I guess that everybody's experience is different. Me - I've taken a lot more spite (liberal love, if you prefer) from the left over the years (probably 'cause they see me as a turncoat) and if you tune in to MSNBC for just 10 minutes you could easily see it on a grander scale.
ReplyDeleteWill, my point, concern if you prefer is not with MSNBC, or Fox et all, it is with internet sites or blogs that take partisan bullshit and take it to a level that is vile, slanderous, and malicious in nature. Or allow, accept, and otherwise encourage said behavior. You can disagree with liberals (or conservatives) without making it personal, slanderous, vile, or malicious. As poor (bad) as cable news and politicians (of both parties) can be there are sites that go WAY beyond what cable "news" and politicians do. It is with those sites and their hypocrisy that I am talking about.
ReplyDeleteOne must have thick skin to be a politician, newscaster/commentator, or blogger, I get that. However, there is a line which should not be crossed. In other simple words... attack the message, NOT the messenger(s).
It is past time conservatives/libertarians running in the blogosphere stand and denounce sites that engage in or tolerate the behaviour(s) pointed to in this post. Ethics and common decency demand it.
Groupthink and/or "Lord of the Flies" behaviour must be called out and exposed for what it is. When conservative/libertarian sites engage in either it gives conservatism and libertarianism a bad name.
A commendable post, Les. To be clear before someone misinterprets your point, no one advocates shutting down a blog or censoring the free exchange of ideas. What has happened and what you are discussing is the descent into brutish vulgarity and the use of sexual threats and intimidation that has appeared at "Who's Your Daddy," and which are left at liberal blogs on comment moderation.
ReplyDeleteThe people who engage in such tactics lack the intelligence to discuss issues so they use depraved images in links to express their anger and inadequacies. You and I know who these actors are. They need to be called out and exposed for their stupidity and execrable behaviors.
You have been banned from "Free Thinke's" blog, an hilarious action, IMO, from a person who calls himself "Free Thinke." Apparently, your brand of free thinking is not welcomed, yet he chooses to associate with the people who populate "Who's Your Daddy" blog and who use gutter tactics and sexual intimidation against those with whom they disagree.
It is a mad, mad, mad, mad world.
Thanks for trying to inject some sanity into it.
Shaw, maybe their objective is to shut us out. Think about it... they flooded Geeez with tons of comments using disgusting language, and then the libs get banned. They started in on Jo Jo Politico, and now we're essentially banned. They are working hard o Free and of course they are a regular fixture on Lisa's blog, so much so that she has even deleted posts...
ReplyDeleteMaybe that is the strategy... make it so hard to maintain a blog where both sides can express themselves without the gutter being present.
Certainly some of those blogs I've mentioned have other issues, but I've got to wonder...
I find that they attack the messager when they have no argument against the message. This is when you know you have them beat...and so does everyone else.
ReplyDeleteThere are very few sites that don't censor and the one you speak of is one of them. It is unfortunate that civility cannot be part of the blog world but some individuals just can't act in a civil way.
ReplyDeleteThere are extremes on both sides and they seem to invade a site on occasion and disrupt the thread.
I have been assaulted for some of my views but in most cases when I present an argument that cannot be disputed but goes against the administrators own views, I am just called silly and they move on.
I hereby promise I will NOT describe your comments as "silly" again. You have shown yourself to have common human decency skud. That is more valuable to me than agreeing on political issues. Les and I have agreement on this as well.
Deleteskudrunner, I have seen your comment posts of the liberal sites we both visit. Some of your comments II do not agree with but I have never seen you leave the vile, vicious, slanderous, and filthy comments that are the subject of this post. You may have unintentionally offended some liberals with a few of your comments but it is clear you are not one of the conservatives of which I am talking about.
ReplyDeleteI continue to maintain just because there are a few liberal sites that may engage in personal attacks does not exonerate conservatives who do so. As a fiscal conservative and social libertarian I simpl believe we should take care of exposing and ostracizing conservatives and conservative sites that engage in or encourage such behavior.
Even if the premises are correct the behavior of the personal attack bloggers negates any good they may have had to offer.
At least we know what happens to childhood bullies when they grow up.
ReplyDeleteUhh... BB? I don't think they grew up did they...
DeleteOne of the first blogs that I ever went to was Lydia Cornell's (she's an actress, I guess) and the first post that I saw was by a dude who accused John McCain (it was during the dog-days of the 2008 campaign) of once being a North Vietnamese collaborator and they routinely referred to both Bush and McCain as "mein fuhrer (yeah, both of them) and the conservative Republicans collectively as "Reich wingers". I kinda think that that's worse than the silly little putdowns of Lisa (who I really didn't think that people took too seriously).
ReplyDeleteWill: " I kinda think that that's worse than the silly little putdowns of Lisa (who I really didn't think that people took too seriously)."
ReplyDeleteWill, you probably haven't been to Lisa's blog recently. If you had, you would have seen that she allowed a commenter to post pornography and comments--rape themed--at me. I'm not imagining this. I have them saved, and have had people, who know what sexual harassment and intimidation is, view these comments and links directed at me and that are left at my blog. If you had any knowledge about cyber bullying, you would know that what Lisa has allowed on her blog (and even laughed at) is a crime. I'm not exaggerating.
Goggle it.
As bloggers, should we remain silent when crazies attack women in this way just because the crazies don't like what women's political opinions are or how we women run our blogs?
Yes, skud, the worst I've said to you is that sometimes your comments are "silly." Never, never, never have I attacked you with sexually explicit pornography that suggests you should be raped. This is what Lisa's commenter engaged in. It's not my imagination. I have the evidence saved to prove it.
It's one thing to make jokes and jibes at people. I can take that. What I and my family will not tolerate is some cowardly, little bully sending me pornography about sodomy that suggest that I need to be raped.
You're right, Shaw, I did not know this and if Lisa allowed these comments to remain on her site for more than even a short period, then, yes, the woman absolutely owes you an apology.
DeleteI can assure you she did Will. Her lack of character, and the vile, filthy remarks and smut posted by some of her regulars prompted me to do this post.
DeleteThere is far too many conservatives who turn a blind eye to this shit, Rusty Shackleford, one of your regulars over at your site is one if them. Just another conservative with no balls or ethical integrity.
I also saw a little ditty about Maxine Waters (who I don't particularly care for, either, but, still) being a "shaved ape". Hopefully that one gets deep-sixed as well.
DeleteJust the surface Will. I'm sure you recall all the pictures on consevative blogs with the picture of Obma with a bone in his nose as well as many others. It seems these behaviors run deep in conservative/reactionary blogistan. Makes one completely rethink the conservative movement in today's environment.
DeleteHopefully sane ethical conservatives and libertarians marginalize this type and will begin exposing them for what they really are.
Just to be fair, there was a picture posted in the Daily Kos a few years back in which they made it look as if Joe Lieberman was giving President Bush a blow job. It was up for quite a few days and it was only after O'Reilly called them out on it (yeah, he occasionally does something right) that the sucker came down. Both sides do it. Not just the "Reich wing".
DeleteWill, two wrongs do not make a right.
DeleteAre you suggesting that because both sides do it it evens things out so we should ignore it, accept that it's okay, that it is what it is so okay, nothing to be done about the slime, filth, and intimidation employed by the asshat degenerates at Lisa's cesspool?
It is time, no, past time for conservatives and liberals to grow some balls (figuratively of course w/respect to women) and stand shoulder to shoulder and denounce the behavior with THEIR OWN ranks.
DeleteTiptoe around the edges is to cop out.
"...the behavior with THEIR OWN ranks...."
DeleteWhich includes Rusty.
Nope, Les, 2 wrongs make 2 wrongs and I condemn all of them (as opposed to folks like you-know-who only condemn 50%).
DeleteWho'sYout Daddy removed the vile garbage Shaw is talking about from her site. There is a reason she removed it. By allowing it to be posted in the first place make her an accessory. It also defines her lack of character.
ReplyDeleteI assumed Lisa had a moral compass because of her fine work in rescuing abandoned puppies. She seems not to see the evil and moral rot in some of her commenters. I don't know why. Only she can explain why she tolerated the smut on her blog. And she did until she was called out on it, not because she herself found it unacceptable.
DeleteI think the key question here is, how long was Lisa aware of the vile posts? Was it a matter of minutes or a matter of days? 'Cause if it was the latter (as appears to be the case here), she definitely owes Shaw an apology (as opposed to the former where we could probably cut her some slack).
DeleteWill: Not only did Lisa know of it, she helped them form the links properly.
DeleteI'm curious, RN. Are those your posts on the current thread at "Who's Your Daddy" or are you being spoofed?
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think Ducky? Just curious.
DeleteBut O'give you a hint. Does a bear sh*t in the woods?
I assume you're being spoofed.
DeleteWell Ducky, you assumed incorrectly in this instance. But now you know.
DeleteI think that my only real objection here, Les, was the "conservatives are worse" assertion. I've done a little bit of research in my younger days and from my experience attributes tend to be fairly evenly distributed across the population and while, yes, there are obviously differences between groups, they tend not to be along these lines. I mean, I know that conservatives can point to studies which claim that they're more virtuous, intelligent, etc. and the liberals can easily do likewise but I strongly suspect that these studies are little more than self-serving and self congratulatory missives that probably tell us bubkas.
ReplyDeleteThere are clubby blogs where the goal seems verbal gang rape of any who dare to differ, followed by
ReplyDeletepuerile smug self-congratulations; we ponder the actual persons behind such. A few offer posts which vary from clever and erudite to gutter trash talk. which to me, anyway, is indicative of some sort
of bipolar problem. Perhaps, thought experiment-wise, is to gather the worst of each side, put them in a bar with free drinks....and observe?
If only it were possible BB Idaho. But then again it cold turn into a blood bath.
DeleteEspecially if one infamous T. Nuge were present.
TammyBruce.com is a perfect example.
ReplyDelete