Another Day, Another Shooting, and Another Teen Dies...
by: Les Carpenter
Rational Nation USA
Purveyor of Truth
A majority of Americans support the 2'nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms. Actually the more accurate statement is a majority of Americans support the right of law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms responsibly, without endangering innocent individuals, or using deadly force except in an act of self defense against an assailant. That is how I see it anyway, and honestly believe most others do as well.
However, as we continue to witness unnecessary deaths by firearms in ever increasing frequency even the most staunch 2'nd Amendment right advocates (I consider myself in that group) need to begin to ask themselves what measures must we take to end the growing firearm violence. Surely a nation of intelligent people ought to be able to protect the right of the responsible and well balanced citizens to have firearms and at the same time do a better job of protecting society from the senseless violence we as a nation almost seem to expect as a price of our right to firearm ownership.
Maybe it is time, no, it is time the NRA, firearm manufactures, and the House and Senate get serious about taking responsible actions, enforcing universal background checks, reasonable waiting or cooling off periods, prohibiting sale of firearms at gun shows, resolving reasonably the concern over high cap magazines, etc, and etc.
I realize the measures I mentioned above may not have prevented the shooting death of 15 year old Adrian Broadway by 48 year old Willie Noble this past Saturday in Arkansas. However, for me this is yet another indication of a deep national problem that has grown to completely unacceptable levels. As near as I can tell we are doing little to nothing as a nation.
More HERE and HERE.
Rational Nation USA
Purveyor of Truth
A majority of Americans support the 2'nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms. Actually the more accurate statement is a majority of Americans support the right of law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms responsibly, without endangering innocent individuals, or using deadly force except in an act of self defense against an assailant. That is how I see it anyway, and honestly believe most others do as well.
However, as we continue to witness unnecessary deaths by firearms in ever increasing frequency even the most staunch 2'nd Amendment right advocates (I consider myself in that group) need to begin to ask themselves what measures must we take to end the growing firearm violence. Surely a nation of intelligent people ought to be able to protect the right of the responsible and well balanced citizens to have firearms and at the same time do a better job of protecting society from the senseless violence we as a nation almost seem to expect as a price of our right to firearm ownership.
Maybe it is time, no, it is time the NRA, firearm manufactures, and the House and Senate get serious about taking responsible actions, enforcing universal background checks, reasonable waiting or cooling off periods, prohibiting sale of firearms at gun shows, resolving reasonably the concern over high cap magazines, etc, and etc.
I realize the measures I mentioned above may not have prevented the shooting death of 15 year old Adrian Broadway by 48 year old Willie Noble this past Saturday in Arkansas. However, for me this is yet another indication of a deep national problem that has grown to completely unacceptable levels. As near as I can tell we are doing little to nothing as a nation.
The Daily Banter - In Little Rock, Arkansas, a 15-year-old girl, Adrian Broadway, and several of her friends were egging a rival friend’s car as payback for a Halloween prank last year. The friend’s father, Willie Noble, appeared brandishing a shot-gun. Noble allegedly fired at kids while they sat in their car. Broadway later died at Children’s Hospital of a gunshot wound to the head.
Charges have been filed in the shooting death of a 15-year-old girl early Saturday morning.
48-year-old Willie Noble is charged with First Degree Murder, committing a Terrorist Act, and five counts of Aggravated Assault.
Another good guy with a gun — another law-abiding gun owner — taking the law into his own hands.
More HERE and HERE.
The gun nuts want rights without responsibilities.
ReplyDeleteJMJ
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteDeleted my comment, as on reflection I don't think it dealt close enough with what Jersey said.
Delete...Basically, the NRA members who are friends of mine are very supportive of the NRA (which probably might make them gun nuts according to you) and they also take "responsibilities" very seriously, in regards to training, safety. etc.
DeleteTo me, anyone who is currently a member of the NRA must be either profiting from their particular brand of advocacy, or is being duped. The NRA eagerly advocates for pouring as many guns onto the streets of America as the manufacturing allows. It's insane.
DeleteYou screwball gun nuts (yes, I said it) think the right to keep and near arms confers the rights to sell them or give them away to anyone you choose and to manufacture them in any way you want. The right to KEEP the friggin' arm confers no sense of ACTUALLY KEEPING IT to you insane screwballs.
All rights should have limits, and most rights do. You gun f'rs want no limits whatsoever when it comes to your silly childish dangerous little metal toys.
JMJ
Damn jmj, Don't run off the rails here. It is a huge leap to presume the visitors to this thread are "gun nutters" that want no controls. Rather than make assuptions why not ask specific questions for commenters to respond to. By their responses you'll know.
DeleteShall I assume you presume I'm a irresponsible gun nut jmj?
I think the context for "gun nut" is self-evident, Les. It's not like this is some brand new issue with brand new actors. Either you are for responsibilities with rights or you are not. It's not that hard to see, once you wade through the BS.
DeleteJMJ
Righto, appreciate your non answer to my direct question. But I know, it's more fun to dance. :-0
DeleteThe answer would be no (I just got lost in the response). I believe you are for some reasonable responsibilities. You're squishy on the issue from my point of view.
DeleteJMJ
Squishy? Of course in your mind because I don't support confiscation, bans, and repealing the second amendment.
DeleteHow about you taking a long walk of a very sbort Jersey pier?
Overall well said, RN. Something needs to be done. But prudently, without going overboard.... I'm sure you are aware of that. Keeping "confiscate, confiscate, confiscate" off the table. As the extreme fringes that Jersey seems to be speaking out need to be shut out of a serious debate, so to the confiscators and also the extremists on the other side such as this one who want to do some damage to the Constitution.
ReplyDeleteYes, I'm aware of that. It goes without saying..
DeleteAnd... RN, we also need to make sure that the solutions address the major ongoing problem linked to below, and not just focus on preventing the two "headline" murders you mentioned above:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.freep.com/article/20130104/NEWS01/301040139/Detroit-sees-highest-homicide-rate-in-nearly-20-years
Indeed dmarks. indeed. Detroit has become one of America's modern war zones.
ReplyDelete"This could look bad for OCP, Johnson. Assemble the best spin team we have."
DeleteNot that there won't be a profit made regardless.
The firearms manufacturers certainly know they need to maintain profits by generating growth.
Jersey.....this guy had a shot gun...is he a gun nut? I have two shot guns...am I a gun nut?
ReplyDeleteOur society is pretty much on edge these days......has anyone here ever pulled up on a red light only to have some idiot pull up next to you with their music blaring at sonic levels.....what went through your mind.....have you walked through the local mall recently, having to hear some jerks in their teens dropping F bomb after F bomb.......have you been to an NFL game recently?
I say make it al law that everyone, boys and girls both be issued a 9mm pistol at the age of 15......F**kem....let them shoot it out. Let the law of the jungle prevail.
A gun loon is someone who either doesn't believe we have a firearms problems or believes it can be solved by more firearms.
DeleteIf it fits ...
I will agree, Ducky. And add to this loons like the woman in Texas I linked to who wanted to rip a hole in the Constitution. As long as we recognize that extremes exist on both sides.
DeleteRS, "15 years old... issued a 9mm... f**ken... let them shoot it out... law of the jungle..."
ReplyDeleteYou're kidding, right? If not you ARE part of the problem.
This society is losing, has lost, basic respect for others, its sense of responsibility, its reverence for life itself and the belief that EVERYONE has the right to their life...
We're rapidly regressing to "the law of the jungle" RS. So I guess you'll eventually get something close to your statement.
"We're rapidly regressing to "the law of the jungle" RS"
DeleteDetroit: The City of Tomorrow.
"The great equalizer" makes a little guy big. IMO, there are two types here; the vast majority, sportsmen, hobbiests, target shooters, collectors. Then there are the cop wannabees, lugging their
ReplyDeleteheat, on edge and in fear of being assaulted in college lectures, church and the mall. Half of US households have no guns, yet there is at least one weapon per capita. Switzerland, the 'armed citizen' the NRA touts, has under a half weapon per capita. IMO, the problem is bad and will get worse. Imagine Jefferson, "How many rounds per mag? Holy sh*t!..what did we do?"
"The gun nuts want rights without responsibilities."
ReplyDeletedmarks is an extremist who characterized the above statement this way: "As the extreme fringes that Jersey seems to be speaking out need to be shut out of a serious debate,..."
How is the observation that gun "nuts" want rights without responsibilites an extreme statement? Of course it isn't, it's a statement of fact. The operative word in JMJ's comment is "nuts." He isn't talking about responsible gun owners, he's talking about the "nuts" who leave unsecured loaded guns around the house so that children (and stupid adults) get hold of them and shoot themselves and others because those "nuts" are not responsible.
dmarks always takes a perfectly reasonable statement and turns it into a controversial one.
Perhaps if cities like Detroit and New Orleans, and more states had stricter gun laws, the gun violence would lessen:
U.S. states with most gun laws have far fewer gun deaths, study shows
In the dozen or so states with the most gun-control laws, gun death rates were 42% lower than in states with fewer laws. The results are based on an analysis of 2007-2010 gun-related homicides and suicides by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
"dmarks always takes a perfectly reasonable statement and turns it into a controversial one"
DeleteIrrelevant, untrue, and unproductive. Perhaps the first smear of this discussion. I hope it is the last.
Perhaps a real "extremist" here might be a pure ideologue who wants such matters discussed without any regard to real "controversy" and reasoned dissent, and thinks that only one side is "reasonable".
Delete
ReplyDeleteOf course I was kidding RN. My point was what our society has evolved to......no respect for individuals......lack of self respect by many.
Jersey threw out the term "gun nuts." Just what does he consider a gun nut? Is anyone who owns a gun also a gun nut?
"Even increasing frequency?"
ReplyDeleteJust the opposite:
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/
Also, Shaw cites a biased organization. the FBI or some other government agency crunches the numbers more dispassionately
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
I've pointed it out many times: Gun Crazy Colorado, including Denver (and our surrounding gun nut states) have a lower gun crime rate than Mass and Boston, also Illinois, California and DC, all strick gun control states.
I wonder if it could be something besides the guns?
Silver: you must be an "extremist" also for giving reasonable arguments in this inherently controversial and contentious subject...
ReplyDeleteConsidering what you mention, Detroit has strict laws on guns and gun crimes: but the enforcement of them is terrible.
Extremes regardless from which side they originate are generally wrong headed precisely because extreme positions are fueled and driven by passionate ideology rather than reason.
ReplyDeleteExactly...and no one commenting so far is any kind of "extermist", and even Rusty's alarming statement was not serious. Shaw was out-of-line.
DeleteAfter re-reading Shaw's comment aside from the stereotypical remark about your phraseology I don't find it overly extremist.
DeleteNow, if Shaw comes out and advocates for confiscation, firearm bans, repealing the 2'nd Amendment, then I would agree that is extreme. To my knowledge Shaw has not done this.
Having a fully open and honest discussion with the mutual goal of making a bad situation better should IMNHO be everyones goal.
Here is the rub. It will require reasonable compromise and in our current national climate it just may not be possible. I'm pretty sure Ted Nugent and the NRA are working hard to insure my previous statement is true.
RN: I understand well. I was not claiming that Shaws views here were extremist, but I was hinting that her careless labeling of my views presented in these comments, which are mild but not in lockstep with hers, might itself be extreme.
DeleteI will accept that she had a bad day or something. Reasonable compromise is indeed in order.
With the above being said, the NRA, gun manufactures, and politicians wrapping themselves in the flag have responsibility to engage in honest debate and be part of the solution to a real problem.
ReplyDeleteIt may be just my opinion but the NRA, gun manufacturers, 2'nd amendmemt waving politicians, and irresponsible firearm owners have zero real intetest in anything but the status qou.
ReplyDeleteFrankly, and as I stated in this post, and I've said it many times... I FULLY SUPPORT the SECOND AMENDMENT and the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS... RESPONSIBLY.
ReplyDeleteI do NOT support stupid. Failing to address this issue in a reasoned and unemotional way us STUPID. IMNHO.
Again, and it my be just me, the odds are reasonable people desire something be done to stem firearm violence in the streets of America. Both liberals and conservatives, and the VAST majority who think this way want it done without trashing the 2'nd Amendment.
There are several factors at play in why a state has a high or low gun death rate. If you take the time to read this Forbes Magazine article, you'll understand what they are.
ReplyDeleteGood link, Shaw.
Delete