Friday, November 1, 2013

GOP'ers Growing Unhappiness and Division Within Their Party...

by: Les Carpenter
Rational Nation USA
Liberty -vs- Tyranny

Division within the GOP is stark and becoming more so with each passing day. The Tea Party wing of the GOP, while taking principled positions has been completely unyielding, therefore making any compromise virtually impossible. Rather than viewing compromise as the positive outcome of hard fought political battles they view compromise as total defeat. Ultimately, at least in the minds of the purist, this means advancing the march of the great evil bogeyman. I'm sure you all can guess what that is.

The Democratic party on the other hand is enjoying relative unity, a good thing for the party faithful going into the mid term elections in November 2014. Already controlling the Senate, as well as the presidency, the House may be up for grabs if the general electorate continues to view the GOP in an increasingly unfavorable light. Further, many in the GOP are starting to view their party more unfavorably as a result of the extreme rightward movement of their party, the result of Tea Party legislators and activists.

What this non partisan political junkie fears is a fierce leftward backlash in response to what has occurred, and continues to occur on the right. Few will argue (I think) that society will only let the ideological political pendulum swing only so far in either the rightward or the leftward direction before it will force a correction. Corrections can be very difficult, causing economic and social pain for extended periods of time. Recall the Roaring 20's, the concentration of wealth at the top, and the resulting collapse of the economy.

Principles such as hard work, integrity, preserving individual liberty, controlling the growth of government while at the same time insuring it works for the benefit of all the the people (I refer you to Thomas Paine and his writings), as well as recognizing change is the only certainly in life and we must act responsibly to changing circumstances and times are all worthwhile and worth working towards. However, the belief and desire to manage a nation of the size of the USA as though it were still 1776 and 1789 is nonsensical. The American people have registered this concern and the GOP to survive and continue to be a force in American politics and governance must realize this.

By the sounds of a recent Wall Street Journal/NBC News Poll many in the GOP are beginning to understand the stakes involved. Making America strong and healthy requires dissent, consensus, compromise, and putting country above partisan politics.

... Democrats are largely content with their own party, while distaste among Republicans for the GOP has grown exponentially this year.

The most recent Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll, offers a stark window into widening divisions within the GOP over strategy and what kind of leaders Republicans want going forward. The Democratic Party, by comparison, is a picture of unity.


In December, just a month after the GOP experienced a string of election losses, nearly two-thirds of all Republicans held a positive view of their party. Ten months later that share has dropped to less than half.

Among those who are more wavering in their ties to the GOP—a group that is nearly twice the size of the party’s most fervent followers—affection for the party in the latest poll dropped to 35%, with almost an equal number saying they viewed the party in a negative light.

By comparison, nearly three-quarters of all Democrats in the poll said they have a positive view of their party, down just slightly since the end of last year. Even the more wavering among the Democrats are positive toward their party (61%).

The sharp divisions over political style with the GOP also have no corollary among Democrats.

A good example is Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, widely seen as a chief architect of the showdown that led to last month’s government shutdown.

In the poll, just 19% of non-tea party Republicans said they have a positive view of Mr. Cruz, exactly in line with the rest of the country. But a striking 69% of tea-party Republicans in the poll gave Mr. Cruz positive marks.

A similar break can be seen over the question of whether Republicans want their party members in Congress to make compromises to gain a consensus on budgetary matters, or stick to their positions even if this means no budget agreement.

Just under half of all Republicans favored compromise. But among tea-party Republicans, a solid 64% said Republicans in Congress should stick to their positions no matter what. Just a third of non-tea party Republicans took that stauncher position.

When the same question was asked of Democrats, a solid 68% favored compromise, with little variation among liberals and more wavering Democrats.

The overall sourness of public sentiment toward the political status quo has triggered another round of yearning for a potential third party.


Do you have a positive or negative view of your own party?

Democrats: 73% positive, 7% negative

Republicans: 49% positive, 26% negative

Tea-party Republicans: 56% positive, 21% negative

Non tea party Republicans: 41% positive, 32% negative

And another chart:

Read full report HERE.

Via: Memeorandum


  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

  2. You are certainly correct, RN, that the Republican party is in disorder. They have shifted so far right and put themselves at the mercy of uber-extremists from gerrymandered districts that there is no easy way back.

    Are we going to swing left? yes, but that's only going to bring us closer to the center. There is no danger of any leftist movement developing in this country.

    Severe economic dislocation? Hardly. We simply accept that this trickle down supply side nonsense is an utter failure.

    Lousy growth but the upper decile is making money hand over fist, cororations are flush with cash and taxes on the wealthy are low. Time for the right to explain why the job creators are such a bunch of slugs. No economic dislocation is necessary, just a return to sound progressive taxation to start.

    1. "Are we going to swing left? yes, but that's only going to bring us closer to the center. There is no danger of any leftist movement developing in this country."

      There are degrees in everything Ducky, you do realize that right? So yes, there is a leftward shift and it is driven by the progressive political ideology. In fact progressivism, which is leftist by definition, has been around since Theodore Roosevelt. Although by the standards of today TR would likely be considered a conservative, or a right leaning moderate wre he around now.

      Change is inevitable and the political pendulum always swings right to left and left to right perpetually in the USA.. Following each leftward swing of the pendulum it seems the rightward return swing stops just short of the prior point of stopping. Until now, with the advent of the Tea Party and its influence influence. The Tea Party (in its present form) will be relatively short lived.

      "Time for the right to explain why the job creators are such a bunch of slugs. No economic dislocation is necessary, just a return to sound progressive taxation to start."

      Part of the reason is regulation that is not necessary. While regulation per se is not bad, over regulation is. While we under regulated the financial sector, mortgage brokers, and Fannie and Freddy there is no question, manufacturing (the producers) on the other hand is in some cases are over regulated.

      A return to a top marginal tax rate of 90% makes no sense IMNHO. A return to perhaps 40 - 50% seems somewhat reasonable. Combined with a graduated roll back in defense spending over time as we take the nation off the wartime footing it has been on since WW II, even after the old Soviet union collapsed.

      Oh, almost forgot, get the effing corrupting influence of money out of politics. And end the pet pork projects of reps. and senators.

      There, problem solved.

  3. And may I add, progressive investment here at home.


    1. Aggressive investments to strengthen America, her infrastructure, and the middle class would be good.

    2. What are "progressive investments"? Throwing even more money at a corrupt, resistant to change educational bureaucracy that seemingly doesn't give a rat's arse about children anymore? Adding even more duplicative programs that bleed the treasury? Yeah, that's exactly what we need.

    3. Bla bla bla. All anti-US Government BS. Why do you hate the Constitution, Will?


    4. jmj, have you ANY evidence Will hates the Constitution?

      I'm thinking he could level the same remark at any number of people. As could I or anyone else.

      Rather infantile however. Don't you think?

    5. Oh c'mon, I was mocking him. He hates, and I mean despises, the US government, our Constitutional government, of and for the people. It may not be perfect, but the government is not the enemy. It is what we make of it. People like will vote for people who want to prove the government is bad by making it bad! Prove the government doesn't work by breaking it! These conservatives only aim is to destroy.


    6. No jmj, he does not. It is attitudes like the one you display here (held by many progressives) that help create the national problem we face. Join Ted Cruz in the effort to create continual division.

      You are certainly not alone. Those guilty on both sides likely know who they are.

    7. seems to be great hyperbole to call Will, who merely wants better ideas, adherence to the Constitution, and less corruption from both sides any kind of government hater. There is simply no evidence of anything like this from him.

    8. Wow, I was just pointing out that the U.S. spends more money on education than any country that isn't named Switzerland and that the results keep getting progressively (no pun intended) worse and that maybe, JUST MAYBE, if we tried some other things (vouchers, charter schools, etc.), the results would be significantly better.......And for the record, I haven't voted Republican for President since 1988.

    9. The UK, France, Israel, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, all spend more of their GDP on education than the US. It's about priorities, Will? Do you prioritize even more wealth disparity and stagnant social mobility above education?

      Charters have shown, in general, to be no great innovation. They've been around for a while now and they haven't exactly wowed the world. Sometimes they can be good, but as a general rule, they're no better at best. This isn't some new untried idea anymore, Will.

      Vouchers only work in areas where you have realistic choices. If you live in the great suburban sprawl built in the second half of the twentieth century, as much of the country does, or in rural and exurban areas, vouchers are pointless. The markets are too spread out. No one wants their kids commuting great distances to go to school.

      In the old cities, both large and small, of the country, vouchers can work. And again, they've been around for years. Many years ago, I had the good fortune of receiving a voucher to attend a Catholic school because of public school was overcrowded. It wasn't charity, or some social experiment. It was simply a way of dealing with overcrowding in a large town.

      But as you can see, the reason "vouchers" have been bandied about by the right for years is because they have no intention of actually employing them. They simply lie and say, "The liberals and teachers unions are against vouchers." It simply isn't true. In the cities, everyone is glad to have them. But the right doesn't care at all about the cities, as their constituency, those many people living in those sprawling burbs and rurality, don't want to pay for kids in the cities to get vouchers, where it would actually be logistically feasible and useful.

      So bullshit.


    10. But we spend more than any other country in the world other than Switzerland, period. What, because we have a much better GDP than these countries do that de facto means that we have to spend more to continue to get less? What kind of idiotic thinking is that?......And the whole point of charter schools and vouchers is to instill competition into an absolutely bankrupt and resistant to change educational system that is dominated solely by corrupt teacher unions (I uesd to be a member of one, buddy, and the only thing that these loathsome morons care about is themselves). No, they may not work for everybody but the bad choices will invariably die out and at least some of the kids will benefit.

    11. And this in response to your shallow and ignorant statement pertaining to income inequality and lack of mobility - a) Your analysis tends to focus on static categories and not on flesh and blood human beings who consistently move amongst these categories (58% of the people in the bottom quintile in 1996 were out of it by 2005 and average income gain of the group as a whole was 91%). b) The statistics do not include transfer payments (to the bottom quintile) which in a great many instances represent the vast proportion of a family's purchasing power. c) The statistics tend to examine only pre-tax income and because of that the purchasing power of the top 1% is significantly exaggerated. d) The statistics do not take into account the fact that families in the upper qunitile have significantly more workers (4Xs as many in fact) per family and that this is a major reason for the disparity. e) The statistics fail to underscore the fact that workers in the highest quintile are older (the highest age demographic in terms of income is 45-54) and much more highly educated.

  4. I would not be surprised if the Tea Party should break with the GOP, given the disparity in views.
    The 'Know Nothing' and 'Nullifier' splinter parties are examples from the past were similar breaks in the two party system; collections of die-hard idealists that offered no positive programs and quickly faded. IMO, the GOP can ill afford to continue (or even exist) with the dichotomy.

  5. I agree BB-Idaho. Those within the GOP who are unwilling or unable to work for the benefit of the nation will ultimately be responsible for the party becoming irrelevant in peoples eyes.

    Thus a possible multi generation one party rule. NOT good.

  6. I have an unfavorable view of all 537 of 'em down there, myself.

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  8. It was folly what the GOP embarked upon 40 years ago when it recruited former Dixiecrats to the fold - segregationists, neo-confederates, racists, nihilists and anarchists, and extremist Bible-thumpers who would sooner shelve the Constitution and establish a theocracy, all forerunners of today's Tea Party.

    While one party may dominate for awhile, I doubt it will amount to one party rule. Eventually the dominate party turns fat, complacent, and decadent while the minority party, waiting in the wings, has a resurgence.

    If there is a lesson here, an angry and uncompromising rabble is not worth recruiting just to win at any and all cost.

  9. Little to disagree with really.

    I would only add the same applies to the companion party. When I have more time and energy I might explain further. Or, I may not.

  10. Christie/Martinez 2016?

    An interesting thought/possibility?

    What do you, the reader think?

  11. I thought I saw somewhere that Christie pulled 30% of self-identified liberals. He is far from liberal, but he is a pragmatist, leader and hard worker. Whether he can or will maintain support from both
    liberal and Tea Party seems doubtful, IMO.

    1. I'd like Christie 30% more (it's a good round number) if he ran as an independent.


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