Thursday, October 3, 2013

Perhaps It Is Too Late... Something to Think About

by; Les Carpenter
Rational Nation USA
Liberty -vs- Tyranny

This will probably not be my last post, although if it were it certainly would be in my best interest. At least from a health perspective.

Reason in America has quite frankly jumped the shark. Politics, and by extension government has become a thing to be disdainful of. Personally all I have left for our politicians and GOVERNMENT is utter and complete contempt.

How easily and effortlessly the media, the politicians, the representatives, the senators, the political blogs full of partisan poisonous BS, the talking heads of FOX.. MSNBC.. Limbaugh... and more, all react to the strings their puppet masters are in control of.

Winning. Preserving the long held paradigm(s) of your chosen political ideology is ALL that is important.

Whether you be conservative, liberal, progressive, conservative, reactionary, libertarian, anarchist, socialist, communist, fascist, or whatever, you dare not risk it be said that you actually consider the issues and evident problem(s) in the attempt to find the best workable solution. It MUST first and foremost fit your long held paradigm(s) and resulting template.

There is a reason the American public holds Congress, and most everyone involved in governance in such low esteem. Those entrusted with the GENERAL WILL of the PEOPLE have failed to execute their charge.

However, having said the above here comes the core issue. The slap in the face if you will. Americans, by their own CHOOSING have failed to educate themselves on issues. They have chosen to believe the the "experts", the politically connected, the meaningless polls, the most charismatic speakers, the agenda driven talking heads. In essence the American electorate has allowed itself to lead because they simply have been too busy, or too lazy to identify for themselves exactly what their own rational self interests really are.

I only ask you to THINK about the above. Put the ideological paradigm(s) and the din of the self interested politically connected puppets and shills for all political ideologies and parties aside for the moment and consider what is ACTUALLY in the best rational LONG term interests of yourself, your family, and your nation.

Unless you act in your own rational self interests and that of your family and communities you are IN FACT allowing others to act on your behalf. As we know from historical realities POWER CORRUPTS and ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY.

The choice is yours, the responsibility is yours, and the results will be yours. Individuals do not exist in a vacuum. Society is a complex social construct. As a result living in society requires compromise. Effective compromise takes work, diligence, the ability to maintain an open mind, and it means NOT expecting you will win on all your cherished paradigms.

Progress is not anti conservative. Rather it is considered and cautious progress towards advancing the improvement of society overall and over time.

As I leave for a much needed emotional hiatus:

“When it shall be said in any country in the world my poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want; the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am a friend of its happiness: When these things can be said, there may that country boast its Constitution and its Government”

― Thomas Paine, Rights of Man


  1. "experts", the politically connected, the meaningless polls, the most charismatic speakers, the agenda driven talking heads." pretty much dominate the media; radio, TV, blogs, newspapers. I would add some religious political 'propaganda, into the mix as well. Groups believe their own media to the exclusion of others. People never take the time nor make the effort to look up sources research topics like most were taught in school. Possibly, with such extra effort, politics would be better, and
    perhaps even voters would recognize the pollution big money has introduced into the process.

    1. I forgot to mention the religous influence of some groups BB Idaho. Thanks for touching on it.

  2. This is where a government ends up when it insists upon obtruding into every last corner of our lives.

    Progressivism (of the republican and democrat variety) is all about confiscating our money, our liberties and our rights, throwing them into a great pile, and then selling them back to us for votes and campaign cash.

    The District of Criminals is rotten through and through. It's gangrenous putrescence should make every citizen vomit in disgust.

    1. Perhaps the watchdog of government, a free and unbiased press, has abdicated it's primary responsibility.

      AND, for the sake of argument perhaps the electorate decided to put the responsibility for reasoned thoughtful understanding of issues, and their effect on their own and their families rational self interest on auto pilot in the belief somebody else would make all the right decisions for them.

  3. I am also a fan of Thomas Paine's socialism. I am surprised that RN would be in favor of what Paine advocated, though.

    1. Nice to hear Mr. Sanders. However, I, unlike you do not suffer from a myopic view of reality nor like you do I have tunnel vision.

      Nor do I specialize in canards. Like you do. Guess you misunderstand the meaning of being scrutinized for your content. Beating dead horses is no fun Mr. Sanders.

      But keep on selling the canard that I banned you over at your sight.. if you like.

    2. Site, there, fixed the typo. As to the rest of your last submited comment? After consideration it is being held in spam for further future consideration.

  4. ... but what are we to make of the fact that people have not recognized the corrosive effects of money and lobbying already?

    A finance system that exists simply to move various instruments among the monied, a militarized police, ineffective media that have all but eliminated true reporting, a rump Congress, Supreme Court permission to gerrymander ... any power we had as simply voters is pretty much gone.

    Most people are just trying to protect what little they have until a medical emergency wipes them out.

    1. I respectfully suggest you and Mr.Sanders form a special interest group to represent the downtrodden of America and propose the perfect system in which everyone becomes both productive and millionaires, thus rising all boats to new and "fair" heights.

      Oh, that's right. Its already been tried, in multiple places. It's called COMMUNISM. And it FAILED!

      As to money corrupting the political system I agree Ducky. So, lets get the nation's rational individuals concerned about how we fix it rather than fire partisan grenades al over the place?

  5. I think perhaps it is too late. We are well down the path of statist socialism. I'm not talking about communists marching in the streets, but rather an overweening state whose objective is to do everything for everyone, and to tightly control society and our actions for the good of all.

    Let's face it: People want to be taken care of. If this shutdown shows anything, it is how deeply the multi-tentacled big government Leviathan has penetrated our everyday lives. I really believe that there is no turning back. We're hooked. All of us. Government has addicted us and suborned us.

    For your own sanity, I recommend that you say to hell with blogging and move on to more pleasurable activities. I gave it up for the well-being of my soul. The only reason I fire off a missive every now and then at Western Hero is that it is almost impossible for me to keep my mouth shut, but the sad fact is, I know I'm pissing in the wind.

    People didn't vote for more autonomy, more freedom or less government. They voted for Hope and Change. Twice. This is what America wants. Why stand in the way of a steamroller? And who knows, the Bloombergian Progressives may just usher in a new golden age of light and reason and prosperity. I doubt it, but people are voting to let them try.

    Me? I'd rather grill, play my guitar with friends, read and write. That's what makes me happy. Statistically, my life is half over and my tastes are simple, not requiring lots of money, so what the hell do I care anyway?

    My advice: Abandon blogging for more pleasurable pursuits. We're not making a difference. Ding dongs like Dervish will continue spouting leftwing bullshit about Tom Paine being a socialist, when serious scholars have debunked it, and anyone using the light of reason can see its bullshit. But they continue noxious gas attacks in the marketplace of ideas, so fine, let them poison themselves. You know what they say about arguing with idiots and crazy people.

    My life and my emotional health have been so much better since I gave it up. It will get even better if I can give it up for good and stop visiting my friends' blogs and engaging in futile arguments. Now I understand what alcoholics or drug addicts must go through.

    Seriously, repeat after Blotto from Animal House: It just doesn't matter! It just doesn't matter...

  6. Thanks to blogger I just lost a lengthy response I composed Silver. It is late and I have a long day tomorrow. Your comment deserves a thoughtful response. I will get to it tomorrow as and when time allows.

    1. @ Silver:
      1) We embarked on the road to democratic republics socialism (statism) many years ago. Pin pointing an exact time is difficult but I suspect it followed on the heels the industrial revolution in America and the growing population. So you can ballpark it to the 1820-1870 time period in America and perhaps the first influential politician and President to pursue the doctrine of democratic republican socialism was President Theodore Roosevelt.

      2) Today people want security, a sense that if they apply themselves, work hard to earn a living for themselves and their family, plan and prepare for their future they will be able to save, and with their contributory and therefore EARNED benefit of social security to supplement their retirement live a decent quality of life in their golden years. This is in fact slipping away and only those who CHOSE to not recognize this do so. The data on the income gap, record profits of corporations, the stagnant wages of the lower and middle class, and the corruption in government caused by money and special interest influence is well documented for those who choose to look.

      Leviathan has penetrated our lives because We the People have failed to tell the special interests and privileged and moneyed groups to go pound sand. We the People have been asleep and by far too trusting of the BULLSHIT politicians of both parties and the lies they feed us. We own the situation that exists today and it has been a long time in the making.

      3) I’m sure you have noticed my blogging activity has been quite diminished lately. This is in large part due to my changing life situations at the age of 61 and the need to embark on a new career and hopefully a more rewarding one. Although my prior career was rewarding and profitable I got tired of being “jerked around and used.” I am indeed taking care of the sanity issue. I make my points, accept not everyone will agree, and then say, “IT IS WHAT IT IS” and then move on.

    2. 4) People want individual freedom. The liberty to make choices within the laws they have elected the Congress to intact and the Courts to uphold. They want the right to make choices as to their life partner without discrimination or condemnation, they want to be able to make their own reproductive choices within reason. They don’t want the government in their bedroom, they don’t want laws being formulated and enacted based on some biblical interpretation of morality, they understand that for freedom and liberty to survive society MUST adapt to new and changing realities.

      5) Me, I will find ways to do that which is meaningful and that I enjoy. So far the government has not stopped me from doing so and until such time as it does I shall not become over worried. When I see it beginning to happen I will, like a mad terrorist, respond in ways that will surprise even the stoutest of heart. Yes I believe in the founding principles, yes I believe in limited and constructional government, yes I believe that the people, all the people must be heard and the majority in a civil society must ultimately be recognized or society becomes chaotic and dangerous. I believe the founders realized this and hence the amendment process. They were thinkers, inventers, and the cream of the crop so to speak. Therefore it is absolutely likely they knew America would look nothing like 1787 as time wore on. Therefore they gave us the structure as well as the ability to lawfully and peacefully adapt as civil society required.

      I have lived ¾’s of my life, I don’t need as much as once did either and I have spent the last few years trying to simplify my life as well. So why in the hell should I care either? I guess it’s just because it’s me. No matter how I might try somehow I can’t seem to TURN OFF THE ENGINES OF THOUGHT. A curse I suppose, but it is what it is. That and I am not about to let the Republican conservative whacks off the hook so easy. The left can handle their own.

      6) I probably won’t stop blogging. If for no other reason than to piss off a few left of the moon lefties and right of insanity righties. THE KEY IS NOT TO TAKE IT TOO SERIOUSLY, and be able to laugh at yourself from time to time without letting the whacks in both parties know. Oops, guess I just did. Oh well, what the hell.
      Thanks for the thoughtful comments Silver, it’s too bad open and frank discussion has almost ceased to exist in America today. It is all about preaching to the choirs and to hell with everything else. It is what it is and we just have to do our best to think it through AND maintain an active and questioning mind.

    3. I agree wholeheartedly with your comments, Les. To me, the root of governmental evil today is the special interests of all stripes, and the sickening orgies they have with big government at our expense.

      I still maintain an active and questioning mind, I just expend my time and brainpower on other subjects. The problem with this kind of blogging (speaking for me personally, not criticizing others) is that no matter how we struggle to talk about first principles and political philosophy, we all always end up back in the Red Team-Blue team mud pit, and that is the shit that I am completely worn out over.

    4. It is unfortunate indeed that the only thing that is important is winning. In the event "your" political team doesn't saving face and spinning kicks in. Irrespective of what loyal blind partisans of both parties might say in denial BOTH are guilty.

      It is tiring for those who seek the truth and a better way. But if you believe truth and perseverance ultimately will win the day you must hang in and stick it out.

      Breaks from the BS are nice though.

  7. The bad news - Obamacare (because of such things as adverse selection, perverse incentives, budget busting, and bureaucratic inertia) is going to thoroughly implode. The worse news - it's probably going to be replaced by something along the lines of what England has. My suggestion - you better start exercising and eating better.

  8. And what Thomas Paine was advocating was essentially the same thing that conservatives such as Milton Friedman and Charles Murray have advocated much more recently; a negative income tax. To say that Mr. Paine was a socialist for having this view is exceedingly odd.


  9. Miniver Cheevy, child of scorn,
    __ Grew lean while he assailed the seasons;
    He wept that he was ever born,
    __ And he had reasons.

    Miniver loved the days of old
    __ When swords were bright and steeds were prancing;
    The vision of a warrior bold
    __ Would set him dancing.

    Miniver sighed for what was not,
    __ And dreamed, and rested from his labors;
    He dreamed of Thebes and Camelot,
    __ And Priam’s neighbors.

    Miniver mourned the ripe renown
    __ That made so many a name so fragrant;
    He mourned Romance, now on the town,
    __ And Art, a vagrant.

    Miniver loved the Medici,
    __ Albeit he had never seen one;
    He would have sinned incessantly
    __ Could he have been one.

    Miniver cursed the commonplace
    __ And eyed a khaki suit with loathing;
    He missed the MediƦval grace
    __ Of iron clothing.

    Miniver scorned the gold he sought,
    __ But sore annoyed was he without it;
    Miniver thought, and thought, and thought,
    __ And thought about it.

    Miniver Cheevy, born too late,
    __ Scratched his head and kept on thinking;
    Miniver coughed, and called it fate,
    __ And kept on drinking.

    ~ Edward Arlington Robinson (1869-1935)

  10. Obviously the Republicans disagree about ObamaCare "imploding". If that were the case they'd just let it, instead of trying to repeal it so many times. Perhaps, if they were as sure as Will that it is going to be a disaster -- perhaps they'd have their own plan ready to go when the ACA "implodes". However, if we do end up with a health care system like England's... I say all the better.

    As for Paine, he advocated a lot of things (not just one, as Will implies)... many of them quite socialistic. But Will spins him as a Conservative. I guess he and Glenn Beck have that in common. Anyway, two exceedingly odd comments from Will. In my myopic tunnel-visioned dead-horse-beating opinion, of course.

    1. I didn't say that Paine was a conservative (modern day demarcations of left and right are probably inappropriate for 18th Century thinkers in general), just that his advocating for the equivalent of a negative income tax wouldn't in any way make him a socialist.......And neither do I speak for the Republicans (yet another strawman). I have no idea what they think (I suppose that some of them think that Obamacare is bad for the economy and that it will eventually ruin the healthcare system and bankrupt the treasury) and I am not a fan of their tactics here AND I have criticized them harshly on my blog (as you're aware in that you go there constantly) for their lack of a cogent alternative. But, please, feel free to continuously conflate things (really, me and Glenn Beck, thanks) and rewrite history.

    2. Les, I would try and turn the tables on wd and conflate HIM with people like Ed Schultz and Keith Olbermann (the liberal versions of Beck) but since he would undoubtedly take it as a compliment, I shall refrain.

    3. LOL!!! You are spot on with that one as well.

    4. LOL!!! Will "Straw Man" Hart is spot on about comparing me to Mr. Schultz or Mr. Olbermann being a compliment. Spot off about them being "the Liberal versions of Beck", however.

    5. I agree with Dervish. Beck is much smarter than the raging red blood blister of hate and anger, Ed Schultz.

      Keith Olberboob? Who's he?

    6. Schultz comes by it honestly. He used to be a conservative talk radio host. Beck, from what I've seen, and only an opinion is dumb but sly.

    7. I've always been suspicious of people who do 180s (Arianna Huffington, that former black panther dude who became a conservative Republican, etc.) regardless of direction.

  11. It's just common sense (lol!). If there was a private free healthcare market for the millions of uninsured Americans, we'd have long since had it. The fact of the matter is that a civilized modern society requires a healthcare system, be it private, public, or a combination, and for millions and millions of Americans, that system is inadequate and overly expensive, if it exists at all. Government exists to fill those kinds of utility vacuums. If the GOP wants to get rid of Obamacare, then they should offer something else. You can't just say there isn't a need. Every civil society understands there is a need, for the security and stability of the people. And you certainly can't blame Obama and the Democrats for disallowing the nation's budget process to be used as blackmail to defund any law any congress at any given time may not like.


    1. "It's just common sense (lol!). If there was a private free healthcare market for the millions of uninsured Americans, we'd have long since had it. The fact of the matter is that a civilized modern society requires a healthcare system, be it private, public, or a combination, and for millions and millions of Americans, that system is inadequate and overly expensive,..."

      We can agree on that. Something sooner or later needed to give. In the process we got the ACA. Oh well. It is what it is and sooner or later we are going to have to deal with the flaws.

      The sun will rise tomorrow and set in the evening. The sky won't fall in and Mr.Sanders will still be beating dead horses. So, life will go on, the struggle(s) will continue, and we all do the best we can with what we have.

      Government is merely an annoyance we can avoid.

  12. For some strange reason the Daily Kos didn't seem to want to include this quote. “Nothing could be more unjust than agrarian law in a country improved by cultivation; for though every man, as an inhabitant of the earth, is a joint proprietor of it in its natural state, it does not follow that he is a joint proprietor of cultivated earth. The additional value made by cultivation, after the system was admitted, became the property of those who did it, or who inherited it from them, or who purchased it." Thomas Paine, not a socialist.

    1. Will bringing on the KO. As Mr. Canardo Sanders is forced to regroup and ready himself for the inevitable next KO punch.

      You the MAN Will!!!

    2. Ha ha ha ha ha... didn't publish my response to Will's bogus "KO". Why am I not surprised? Proof positive of RN's game playing and lying. You and Will "Straw Man" Hart deserve each other. Only thing missing is the childish Dennis calling me childish.

    3. Feel free to resubmit comment Mr. Canardo Sanders. Feel free. Original must have got lost somewhere.


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