Monday, July 1, 2013

Some Interesting Info... Not Surprising

by: Les Carpenter
Rational Nation USA
Liberty -vs- Tyranny



















America is indeed changing. More accepting and tolerant. For certain the nation has a long way to go before bigotry and prejudice is finally eradicated for good. But the movement is encouraging and no amount of religious right influence or  latent racial prejudice will stop the trajectory.

Some interesting snippets of the changing times.
USA TODAY -...  Last year was the first time a majority of Americans had backed gay marriage.

The only major demographic groups in which a majority oppose same-sex marriage are Republicans (68%) and seniors 65 and older (51%). Even in the South, which continues to be the only region that doesn't show majority support for gay marriage, opposition has slipped below 50%.

• By a narrower margin, 48%-43%, those surveyed favor the Supreme Court's decision declaring unconstitutional part of the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act, which barred the federal government from providing benefits to same-sex spouses. Views on the issue are intense. Those who feel strongly about the issue split 29%-29% in favor and against the ruling.

• By 53%-37%, Americans say affirmative action programs are still needed to counteract the effects of discrimination against minorities. That reflects a rebound in support after the court's ruling. In an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll taken a few weeks before the court's decision, the nation split 45%-45% over whether such programs were needed or had gone too far.

In a case involving the University of Texas, the Supreme Court ruled that affirmative action programs in college admissions were permissible but set a tough legal standard the programs have to meet.

• By 49%-40%, those surveyed oppose the decision by the court to strike down the provision in the Voting Rights Act that required some states, mostly in the South, to get federal approval to change election laws. Two-thirds of African Americans oppose the decision.

The country divides 43%-44% in approval-disapproval over the way the Supreme Court is doing its job. That's the lowest level of approval in eight years and nearly 20 percentage points lower than it was as recently as 2001...  {Full Report Here}

The only thing that is inevitable is change.  Best to accept change and work to make things better. Without giving up the many good things that have always been America. 

Via: Memeorandum

26 comments:

  1. It's not so "encouraging" when you note in your second bullet item that so many favor blatant racial discrimination as a remedy to anything. That's a regressive trend, not a good thing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I merely reported the USA Today data. The bullets are theirs. What is clear is that a majority believe safeguards are still needed to prevent a sliding backwards to institutionalized racism.

      I posted earlier supporting the SCOTUS decision from a philosophical point of view. In theory the majority opinion is the correct judicial one, if , and given some of the BS I've seen on far rightwing blogs it is a big if, the states enforce non discriminatory laws and behaviors all will end well. Clearly the majority opinion, at least according to this data believe that won't happen.

      We'll have to wait and see. Let's hope the redest state legislatures act as the Court believes they will.

      Delete
  2. Replies
    1. You mean I'm not one of those big bad deluded right wing stupid rethuglican wackos anymore?

      Delete
    2. You never were. You're a libertarian. Right? That's what I always thought!

      JMJ

      Delete
  3. "it is a big if"
    Why gamble on if? We had laws that made sure there were no if. We have States pushing harsh voting laws, those cases are in courts right now, yet the Supreme Court says Section 4 is outdated. What? How can it be outdated if there are numerous cases in courts right now? So we give the decision back to the people who were the offenders in the first place! You trust those local politicians?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No more, or less, than I trust the national politicians.

      Delete
  4. Issues of rights should be national, not state or local.

    JMJ

    ReplyDelete
  5. Bigotry and hatred will never be eradicated. They have always existed in all societies. There is no nation on earth where they do not exist.

    Did you read in that same poll that Americans favor Kim Kardashian over Honey Boo?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are right, bigotry and hatred will never be even diminished as long as religion(s) and the attitude it. is what it is continues to be prevalent, accepted, and in some circumstances even encouraged.

      Two choices a) work to change attitudes in OUR nation and society or b) through our hands up in the air and do nothing because it has always been. Make your choice as conscience dictates is what I say to all. It should be a no brainer.

      Glad you were amused with the Kim K. Honey Boo match up.

      Delete
    2. You can't seriously believe that religion is the source of all hatred and bigotry...

      Delete
    3. For starters... Ever read the Old Testement and the Koran? Did I forget to mention the Inquisition. How about the Salem Witch trials. Oops, did I mention the gay marriage issue? Maybe I'm just imaging all this good and holy events happened in the name of religion. If so please forgive me my delusions...

      Delete
    4. You didn't answer my question. Here's a recap:

      You said:

      You are right, bigotry and hatred will never be even diminished as long as religion(s) and the attitude it. is what it is continues to be prevalent, accepted, and in some circumstances even encouraged.

      So I said:

      You can't seriously believe that religion is the source of all hatred and bigotry...

      Reread what I wrote. I never claimed that no evil had been done in the name of religion. You seemed to be making the claim that if religion were wiped out, hatred and bigotry would be gone with it.

      I find that a ridiculous claim, so I asked for clarification since I know you are not a ridiculous man.

      Delete
    5. Silverfiddle said... "You can't seriously believe that religion is the source of all hatred and bigotry..."

      I replied... "For starters... Ever read the Old Testement and the Koran? Did I forget to mention the Inquisition. How about the Salem Witch trials. Oops, did I mention the gay marriage issue? Maybe I'm just imaging all this good and holy events happened in the name of religion. If so please forgive me my delusions..."

      To which I add the clarification... Religion is NOT the sole source of ALL bigotry and hatred.

      It has been just a large part of it.

      So, I stand by my statement as it was intended and after clarification.

      Delete
    6. Thanks for the clarification, Les. That makes your statement sound a little more rational.

      It has been just a large part of it.

      How large, specifically Judaism and Christianity?

      20th Century communism banned religion and ended up killing over 100 million people and destroying entire societies.

      Hitler's movement was pagan, and even in our own country and our cousin countries of Europe, professed agnostics or irreligious cause much more destruction than Christians.

      I am open to examples of Jews or Christians causing such large-scale destruction.

      We must also take into account their contributions to society in the realm of the arts, humanities, philosophy, literature, etc.

      So, would you call all opposition to gay marriage "bigoted" and "hatred?"

      Sounds like you are very intolerant, some would even say bigoted, towards those who think differently than you.

      Delete
    7. "It has been just a large part of it."

      How large is for you to decide. Is it not?

      "20th Century communism banned religion and ended up killing over 100 million people and destroying entire societies."

      A distraction and irrelevant IMNHO. Religion did not die because a statist political system banned it. It simple went underground. Your example is a false equivalency.

      "We must also take into account their contributions to society in the realm of the arts, humanities, philosophy, literature, etc."

      We have...Doesn't erase or exonerate the BAD history you apparently prefer to not to talk about. And that is okay by me.

      "So, would you call all opposition to gay marriage "bigoted" and "hatred?"

      I have posted on this many times, I refer you to my clear position on this subject. Check the Daily Caller Archives as well.

      Do you?

      "Sounds like you are very intolerant, some would even say bigoted, towards those who think differently than you."

      Really, how very very interestering. Now we have a case of pot ca;;ling kettle black methinks...

      Delete
    8. I fully accept the "bad history" you refer to, but are you seriously saying that the over 100 million deaths by communism are chalked up to religion? That's not rational.

      You've made some statements, and I'm asking you for clarification.

      I think your hatred and bigotry against religion has clouded your reasoning.

      Delete
    9. "... but are you seriously saying that the over 100 million deaths by communism are chalked up to religion?"

      That isn't what I said and you know it. I responded to your false equivalency S.

      "You've made some statements, and I'm asking you for clarification."

      Bullshit. Your playing word games and I'm not interested in playing.

      "I think your hatred and bigotry against religion has clouded your reasoning."

      I'll say this as nice as I can. Your having a bad day obviously. I will let this one slide only because I know you are smarter than that. And I sure as hell think your against using the very tactics you rail against.

      Have a nice evening.




      Delete
    10. Silver said: "I fully accept the "bad history" you refer to, but are you seriously saying that the over 100 million deaths by communism are chalked up to religion? That's not rational."

      Surely they were, as all of those leaders who did this were strong Atheists, which is surely a faith, a religion in itself.

      This being said, I think I understood Les' point as he was trying to make it, and I don't think it was as vehement/stark as you interpreted it, Silver.

      Delete
    11. "Surely they were, as all of those leaders who did this were strong Atheists, which is surely a faith, a religion in itself."

      Indeed. As is Objectivism.

      Words like bigotry and hate get tossed around quite easily lately, and it scares me when rational people start doing it.

      Delete
    12. Neither atheism or Objectivism are faiths as faith is conventionally defined. But, like revisionist historians simply change definitions or interpretation.

      Rational indeed.

      Delete
    13. Strong atheism is definitely a faith as faith is conventionally defined. It is on the other end from agnosticism, which definitely does not assert a faith at all.

      Delete
    14. Faith – 1a: allegiance to duty or a person: LOYALTY 1b: fidelity to ones promises 2a 1: belief and trust in and to God 2: belief in the traditional doctrine of a religion b 1: firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete confidence 3: something that is believed esp. with strong conviction: esp. a system of religious beliefs…

      Okay Silver and dmarks, I took the time to look up the definition of faith and gave it some thought. One can argue that atheism could be considered a faith.

      Belief in that which cannot be proved - God, is, in the atheists mind simply a construct of man, of his imagination and desire to live in some form forever and ever.

      Atheists view observable phenomenon, knowledge from science, logic, and philosophy connected to the aforementioned to be reliable and preferable for making life decisions on. As the ethics and morality of rational self interest (central to Objectivism) demonstrates ethics and morality exists in the absence of a belief in supreme, all knowing, all powerful construct of man... God.

      In closing I will say that while I continue to differentiate between atheism and religion (God), and do not personally view atheism as a faith, I must acknowledge your point and concede that your understanding based on the definition is indeed arguable.

      Delete
    15. Considering atheism as another religion is also useful when considering the First Amendment, as it protects the freedom of atheists as well as those of theists.

      Delete
    16. Interesting how that works isn't it?

      Just remember folks our founding fathers, while believing in a supreme being of sorts, never intended that our secular government be influenced by religious dictates.

      I am quite sure the rational among us understand this perfectly well

      Delete
  6. Jersey: Amen, brother. International, even.

    ReplyDelete

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