Wednesday, February 10, 2010

Coming Together is a Two Way Street

I am laughing my proverbial arse off. After spending a fair amount of time on left,  or perhaps they would prefer the tag progressive leaning  blogs, reading the constant belittling, name calling, insulting and often vulgar characterizations of almost  anything they disagree with, which of course is everything conservative, I am not surprised to learn of a Anti Tea Party movement.

Before going any further however I must be fair and balanced. There are a few lefties whose views and opinions are deserving of consideration and I would be amongst the first to advise everyone, including conservatives, to do so. I shall not drop any names here but those of whom I am speaking of know who you are. And any conservative whose mind is open enough to be challenged by smart lefties probably know who am speaking of as well.

Another thing I have noticed about the left, or progressives is their tendency toward elitism and snobbery. I have noticed it for years, going all the way back to my college days and continuing throughout my business life. The lefties, or progressives that I have known in business are without a doubt the most snobbish and tend to a very high level of elitism. I guess it must come naturally to those who choose to wear the badge of "progressive, liberal, or socialist."

After no doubt offending some lefties, they offend easily as emotionalism is one of the characteristics of the liberal persona, I shall return to the starting point of this post. The Anti Tea Party movement and their funneling of monies through special interests (large unions) to target candidates for "the firing squad."

Here's a quick breakdown of the lefty scheme followed a link to the article.

A movement to counter the Tea Party movement is apparently a front end of a complex scheme to funnel contributions (sizable union) through the offices of a prominent Democratic attorney.

The American Public Policy Center (APPC), a Washington DC campaign organization few have heard of  has stated the Tea Party movement is a fad.

However, the APPC  has a prominent role in a network designed to keep money flowing from the flush coffers of the nation's largest labor unions to the political slush funds of democratic candidates.

What is intended to look like a local groundswell is actually the brainchild of Craig Vargosa and George Rakis, both Democratic Party operatives and strategists.

The game is to set up numbers of 527 groups, non profit organizations that select controversial issues to hammer away at.

Vargosa and Rakis have a central mailing address in Washington to which soft money contributions from unions, and presumably other well padded sources are "laundered."

Tens of millions of dollars are then circulated to different states by the 527's to pay for TV ads, Internet campaigns, lobbyists, and salaries, allowing the unions to give the appearance of keeping their hands clean.

I think the drift is clear. While this practice is not illegal, it is dishonest. What gets me a bit worked up is listening to the lefties, progressives, or whatever constantly screaming about corporate donations and influence. All good and well but where is the outrage when unions, and other interests they like do the same frigging thing?

You can find the article by following the link to Anti-Tea Party Web Site Par of Scheme to Funnel Funds.

And another thing. There are those lefties, progressives, socialists, or whatever that complain independent conservatives who are guided by principals found in the Constitution of these United States, the Declaration of Independence, the writings of the Founding Fathers, rational philosophers such as Ayn Rand, are somehow deluded, deranged, or stupid.

To them I say, excuse me, I much prefer to live by principal, integrity, honesty, and the values of hard work and self sufficiency. The values that made this nation what it is,and the values so many misguided lefties, progressives, socialists , or whatever have worked so hard for so many years to destroy.

For you on the left that have manged to retain the ability to use reason and engage in civil and honest discourse with civil and honest conservatives this critical outlook does not apply to you. However, as I keep hearing on the lefty blogs, and I paraphrase,  if it's how you see it then say it straight out and hit em hard right between the eyes. Its your style so don't compromise, stick to the truth.  I decided to take the advise of the left on this one.

Oh, and just a few more quick thought. The system ain't working. It was broken through the combined efforts of the democrats and republicans. Corruption has become the nature of government officials. The Tea Party movement is fed up, I am fed up (in fact I am as mad as h*ll), and I am a proud independent conservative.

And a final word. I also have the same criticism for my conservative brothers and sisters who behave in the same way as the uncivil lefties do. It took me awhile to see the value in acting civilly, without malice, and in ones rational self interest. Which is to say for the purposes of this discussion the nations rational self interest. Or as Radical Perspective would say, as good citizens.

Via: Memeorandum
Via: Fox News


  1. Ah, are you annoyed that "The Lefties" are copying a page from the right's playbook?

    What did you expect?

    Since you supported the Tea Bag Movement then why didn't you argue for the Tea Bag Movement to open its self up TO CITIZENS who were concerned about government spending, about government intrusion into our lives...

    Why didn't you protest in favor of a broad based CITIZENS movement.

    The reality is that Sarah Palin/Dick Armey/Michelle Bachmann have become the spokespeople for the Tea Bag movement...

    Which thus makes it a movement within the Republican Party.

    If the Tea Bag Movement had been a truly INDEPENDENT movement then those of us who realize that the Republicans are just as big a reason for the mess we are in as the Democrats could have also supported the movement.

    You yourself acknowledge that Reagan and Bush were both very much big spenders and big government Presidents....

    Yet you believe that you can change Washington from within the Party that gave us two of the most big spending government enlarging Presidents this country has seen in our lifetime.

    Fox News, your fair and balanced buddy, never once criticize GWB for his big spending money wasting policies and as you know GWB is more responsible than anyone for our current debt situation.

    Thus this whole movement of wanting to change America, to take back our country, is actually nothing more than attempting to regain power for the tax and borrow Republicans...

    That's NOT the change I want: because that is not change at all!

    Now that the lefties are off starting their own movement maybe all these internal party squabbles will lead to the emergence of a third party....

    One that will actually end up doing what the people who support them want them to do...

    If I am not mistaken you supported the recent SOTU decision which gave corporations and unions more freedom of speech...

    Whew, glad I was against it!

  2. Well, Rational One often blogs descend to the lowest and worst comment level. And due to the extremely unlikely chance people will ever come face-to-face the way the fight goes is with insult upon insult. But, for one I can't see the usefulness of responding reasonably to cyber-bullying.

    But, the Tea Party despite it's beginnings has clearly been subverted by Bigots and Racists from within and is being consumed by the Republicans from without. So, by the 2010 and 2012 elections, I estimate 95-98% of the Tea Bag Independent Patriots are going to be voting Republican.

  3. Gene - The descent, as I have come to view it, is both unfortunate and unnecessary.

    Thank you for commenting.

  4. TAO - Briefly;

    No, I am not annoyed. I expect it from the most of the left!

    I did not support the Tea Bag movement per se. I support their right to their opinions and to organize. They are angry and I support their anger if used reasonably and properly.

    I acknowledged that Reagan did not stop the growth of government but he did slow it. I also acknowledged that Bush was a huge liberal spender. And that both had no problem with deficit spending.

    Fox News is not my buddy, get real. I listen to many networks. The are all biased. It just so happens Fox is IMO "better balanced". Oops, the "lesser of two evils" thing again.

    Yup, supported it and glad I did. It's about the higher value of liberty.


    Limited government...
    Cut and control spending...
    Raise taxes for the conservative purpose of reducing the debt...

    Ain't gonna recite my conservative manifesto here. It's available on another page...

    Thanks for stopping by, as always I appreciate your comments.

    At the end of the day we will both go back to doing what we believe is right.

    I have always wondered if the right is called the right because it is... right.

    Good day sir.

  5. If the right was indeed called the right because they are right...

    Then obviously those on the extreme right would be the most right? More right then conservatives?

    Following that logic then, if someone who believes in limited government is more right than some who believe in maximum government then someone who believe in no goverment would be more right than someone who believes in limited government?

    If a conservative is someone who believes in limited government then why is it that anarchists are considered leftists?

    Hippies used to live in communes where there was no centralized power, there was no 'government' so would that make them conservatives?

    Think about it....

    The reality is the terms 'conservative' and 'liberal' have totally changed their meanings from their classical definitions...

    As a radical I believe that the anger exhibited by the Tea Bag movement is exciting and a positive thing...and I am glad to see the same type of anger being exhibited by the left...and I hope that their movement gets as much publiciity and support as the Tea Bag Movement does...

    Its time the people take back their country...not from the liberals and not from the conservatives but from the special interests that control the political process...

    Corporations do not care if the country is in debt because they can up and relocate any time they see fit. Unions only represent 13% of the work force so they are irrelevant.

    Or, here is a quote from Thomas Jefferson:

    "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear... Do not be frightened from this inquiry from any fear of its consequences. If it ends in the belief that there is no God, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise."

  6. TAO - I believe I have not only read the Jefferson quote I might even have used it in my quotes of the week. Would have to check back to be sure on that however.

    The "if the right were right..." got your attention. Nicely followed.

    The anger being displayed by the Tea Party movement and the left will only have positive results if it is controlled. Controlled anger by an individual can be very positive. Uncontrolled anger in mob form on the other hand can and frequently does have unintended and negative consequences. I refer you to "The Return of the Primitive" by none other than Ayn Rand.

    I have long held that liberal and conservative are understood differently than they were at the time of our founding.

    I could be labeled as "a classical liberal" based on my Jeffersonian leanings. Or I could be labeled as and "independent conservative" by today's understanding. Or I could be labeled a radical for capitalism only as it should be.

    In the end I again acknowledge your point is well made. To paraphrase Rhett Butler... Frankly folks I don't give a damn about labels.But as long as the (modern) left uses them so shall I.

    You might find my posts on the Illuminati, the Military Industrial Complex, and the need for term limits illuminating with respect to my positions.

    I remain, as always, a man for liberty, limited government, civil discourse, and the desire to see a true leader emerge in either party that will tell the truth and motivate the nation to rethink our national values along the lines of Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, and Paine.

    But I fear the reality in America may continue to be, as a Vice President of a company I shall leave unnamed was found of saying,"it is what it is."

    I hope not for the sake of my children, grandchild, niece and nephew...

    and so much more.

    Politically I will continue to respectfully disagree with the modern left when my convictions require I do so.

    Good Day

  7. Tao,
    to give balance to your idea then you'd have to subscribe to the same idea for the left. that is if the socialization of any program is good for the society then total socialism is the best idea or to take it further, communism is the best idea.

  8. That works real well Griper....but since corporations and monied interests control our government the only socialism/communism we are apt to see is that which is based upon the demands of business not the workers.

    So, what would corporate socialism look like? George Orwell's 1984?

    Hmm..Rational, you speak of 'control' in relation to grass roots movements...exactly how is that accomplished? How does one identify a controlled movement? How can something that is 'grass roots' be controlled? If it becomes controlled then isn't it no longer a grass roots movement?

    Grass roots movements are by necessity nothing more than mobs...or at least they should be.

    You speak of leaders and grass roots movements and yet the Tea Bag movement is fighting very hard to remain leaderless....

    Mobs and or grass roots movements are always anger based. If the democratic process cannot co op and or resolve that anger then the anger destroys the system...which is as it should be.

    Political systems were devised to channel the desires and expectations of the citizens, when the citizens become angry then obviously the system is not functioning. If the system cannot adapt then it is no longer useful and if it is no longer useful then the citizens are obiligated to destroy it.

  9. Paul Bartlett's recent piece in Forbes Magazine hits the nail in the head: Those who advocate for cutting taxes without a concrete plan for also cutting the budget are blowing smoke.

    It is easy to concentrate on the amounts the Government taxes and spends and ignore the details. Unfortunately this leads mostly to anger, and anger is the enemy of rational thought.

    Here's how I suggest rational people should approach the issue.

    Look at the existing Federal Budget.

    Put a plus sign next to the items you believe the government should be spending money on.

    Put a minus sign next to things you believe the government should not spend money on.

    Add up the amounts with plus signs.

    If there still exists a budget deficit, go back and start reducing the individual amounts in some or all of the plus items until the deficit disappears.

    If you wish to propose any tax cuts, continue reducing amounts in some or all of the plus items to produce a budget surplus.

    Before you start cutting taxes, consider whether some or all of the budget surplus would be better spent paying off existing Federal debt.

    Rational thinkers everywhere should cease appealing to emotions, concentrate on analysis of information from the real world and offer concrete proposals based on that analysis.

  10. Griper - Excellent continuation on TAO's logic.

    Tao - If you chose to massage my words to fit or support your arguments I have no problem with you doing so as I am powerless to get you to see let alone understand my points.

    However I will restate this one time only; my reference to control is valid and you know it.

    Had the revolutionaries that won their freedom from oppressive British rule been leaderless and acted as a mob the British likely would have put an end to the whole question relatively quickly.

    As to your radicalism, I am not sure if you are an anarchist, or just toying with the thought of sanctioning revolution for the sake of revolution and using the emotions of the masses to perhaps some day position yourself to assume a position of authority over the masses.

    There are certainly plenty of examples of it throughout history.

    The proper action is term limits, and then the citizens actually voting out of office those not responding every to their wishes every two or six years. And the presidency every four.

    Also by scaling back the runaway executive powers the Presidents have amassed, IMO, unconstitutionally over the years. The most active have been the progressive presidents by far.

    Anon - Interesting points, and quite rational. I doubt the current administration, or perhaps any in the foreseeable future will see much value in the thought however.

    The bases of both major political parties are stuck in either tax, tax, tax - and spend or borrow, borrow, borrow - and spend.

    Insanity, and then we have the insanity of the angry mob mentality.

    As the V.P. would say, "it is what it is", and that is why I fear for future generations.

    Neither the status quo, nor TAO's solution, will return this country to firm footing.

  11. TAO - It generally works best if you have some idea what is to replace that which you are wanting to displace..

  12. Rational...

    Where I get annoyed is the whole left right thing...

    Our Founding Fathers did not look at what they were doing as being 'conservative' or 'liberal'

    Yet today, everything we do, everything we say, and even what we see we define by the prism of conservative vs. liberal.

    The reality is that 85% of ALL AMERICANS are disgusted with Washington and Congress....those are not just conservative nor are they just liberals...its a broad spectrum revolt.

    Can we develop a CITIZENS movement rather than just a conservative/right or liberal/left movement?

    I agree with a lot of principles that the Tea Bag movement espouses but I am unwilling to support a movement that has obvious ties to the republican party.

    The republican party is just as responsible for the mess this country is in as the democrats and or liberals are.

    I don't agree with the concept of the lesser of two evils....because evil is evil and I do not believe that either of the two major parties will change unless they are threatened...

    I have voted as many times for Republicans as I have democrats so I am truly independent....I also understand the concept of democracy and the will of the people.

    I do not believe that corporations and or unions should be allowed in the campaign process and I believe that all candidates should be limited to one $25 contribution per citizen during an election cycle.

    CONTROL the money and you control the influence. Its that simple.

    You acknowledge that Reagan and Bush were big government big spending presidents but yet you still want to hold on to the idea that somehow the right has all the answers. Of course you will respond with the fact that they were not true conservatives....but the reality do we continue to judge our politicians by their words or their actions?

    I want to take back our government for the CITIZENS first and foremost and then allow the citizens to democratically determine a liberal or conservative direction....

    You on the other hand want to take back the government for the conservatives....

  13. TAO - "You on the other hand want to take back the government for the conservatives..."

    As I said in my lighter post for today I am frankly exhausted at this merry go round.

    You misrepresent my positions and substitute with your inaccurate interpretation of my beliefs and positions.

    As I said earlier, it is what I have come to expect from most liberals.. oops, sorry...

    Or as the V.P. is found of saying, "it is what it is."

    There may be more we agree on than you realize. If I have learned anything in may advancing years it is that my ideals, principals, belief I will not compromise nor will I be brow beat by the elitists that are at every corner waiting to tell me ow to think. That includes government, academia, business guru's, churches... and so it goes.

    To all of them I say screw you. I am who I am and damn proud of it. An individual now and always.

    Good Day Sir

  14. Tao,
    "That works real well Griper....but since corporations and monied interests control our government the only socialism/communism we are apt to see is that which is based upon the demands of business not the workers."

    prove to me that corporations and monied interests control our government rather than the other way around. and don't confuse influence with control.

    the last time i heard, that entity that has the right to use force is the one with the power and the only entity that has the right to use power is the government, the last time i heard.

    the last time i heard, that entity that has the right to enact laws and has the right to enforce them has the power and control. and the last time i heard that right belonged to government not the corporations and monied interests.

    the entity that has the power to tax is the entity of power not those who must pay the tax. and the last time i heard it is government that taxes and everybody else is the payer of taxes.

    from a Constitutional point of view there is only one entity that has as much power or more power is the establishment of religion. it is the only entity that the government cannot control since it cannot make any laws for the control of that entity.

  15. Rational Nation, I saw your comment at Pamela's site and followed the link back here ... first time here, in fact. Although decidedly liberal, my thoughts tend to take an independent track.

    I do not disparage or dismiss the tea bag movement. There are legitimate grievances, and they have a right to be angry ... all of us in fact. However, I do not believe Sarah Palin represents them, or any other leader for that matter. Palin represents those who pay her to speak, and her role is to take those messages to the tea baggers. Those who pay Palin do not have the interests of the tea baggers in mind. The tea baggers may be justifiably angry, but their anger is being exploited by special interests. Too bad the Democrats do not see it this way and dismiss them all too easily. In the this context, the Democrat's loss will be the Republican's gain.

    Changing the subject, I have turned my attention to promoting bipartisanship in the blogosphere because, IMO, the country is turning into a partisan apartheid. As the saying goes: "United we stand, divided we fall."

    So, I want to extend to you a hand of friendship and an invitation to engage in dialogue.

  16. "prove to me that corporations and monied interests control our government rather than the other way around. and don't confuse influence with control."

    ..."and don't confuse influence with control."

    Not really sure how to respond to that one...

    Would you care to explain to me the difference between influence and control?

    You want proof that monied interests control our government...well, look no further than TARP!

    I rest my case Mr Griper....I rest my case...

  17. Octo - Thanks for stopping over. I to believe in civility and proper decorum and respect in the blogosphere.

    As to bipartisanship, I find it useful to realize that extremism and elitism tend to be quite prevalent amongst many in the far left and far right spheres of politics.

    As such they ought to be the group not responded to, and in fact ostracized and shut out of discourse as they add nothing but drivel, hate, and are only about control.

    In a political sense I see one extreme as Leninist and the Hitlerist (for the lack of a better word. Both are evil and the rational ones should work diligently to shut them down.
    It is in our rational self interests to do so from an individual and national level.

    Thank you for extending your hand of friendship and invitation to engage in dialogue. If sincere I shall accept. I have however become wary of those on the left more so than I ever have been. For reasons that may be understood only by myself and other independent conservative individuals.

    If you have not read my conservative manifesto you might wish to do.

    Once again thanks for stopping in at Rational Nation USA. A site that promotes individualism, radical capitalism as it should be not as it is practiced, limited government,liberty, and a site that absolutely despises statism in any form. Even when being masqueraded as the opposite of what it really is.

  18. Griper: I can answer your query about corporate control over individual control of government, from my limited local scope.

    I'm a confirmed Democratic Party "hack."

    Years ago when working to get friends elected all I had to do to get a big crowd at a fundraiser was tell a few people who would tell a few people and we'd end up with hundreds at the park or wherever we had it paying $5 a ticket for the candidate.

    A more telling example was whn it was time to get people to put up signs or drop literature. I'd tell a couple guys from work who would start spreading the word. I'd have 50 guys show up to put up sgns. The next day 20 would be angry at me because nobody told them we were putting up signs or dropping lit.

    Over the last six years those numbers of grass roots helpers has droped by a huge margin. I have to bust my rear to get 8 guys when two phone calls got me 50. Most of the loyal grass rooters knew they had a friend at city hall or the county offices. If they needed a pothole fixed. A streetlight. In the real old days jobs when available went to supporters. My Dad asked a reporter why would he hire his enemies?

    Now the influence is with big money corporate donors. Politicians even on my local level understand a 30 second commercial on the local evening news reaches far more people than he and his crew of ten knockng on doors could ever reach. Direct mail doesn't get blown off the door. It all costs money and one donor that got a government contract gives more for less effort than I could raise at two fundraisers made up of little guys like me.

    Money rules. I busted my ass for years and have zero influence. Frustrating that being committed and a team player since I was 13 means nothing. The guys that donate $500 or more get the contracts and the services.

  19. Tao,
    i gave you examples of where control lies.
    simply put, control lies where the right to makes decision is.
    control lies where "force" can be used to insure compliance to a decision made.
    control lies where punishment of some sort can be meted out for non-compliance of a decision made.

    influence is nothing but the art of persuasion.

    if you enter my house, invited or uninvited i have the right to demand that you leave my house at any time and you must comply or by all rights i can force you to leave.

    you, on the other hand, can influence my decision by persuading me to allow you to remain.
    either way, i am in control of my house because just because you influenced me to allow you to remain i did not give up control of my house i can still put you out at any time i no longer wish you to be there.

    there is your difference.

  20. Griper,

    The 'control' you talk about is actually 'self control' since this is a democracy and since the government represents the will of the people....

    So your absolute disgust with our government is self-loathing....

  21. TAO - Correction, The United States is not a democracy. It is a representative Republic.

    Therefore, speaking only for myself, my loathing is for the representative(s) that no longer represent anything but their own corrupt practices and self image.

    I have no loathing whatsoever for either our constitution (strictly read), or for the principals on which this nation was founded.

    Where you stand is any bodies guess.

  22. Rational Nation USA - Correction The USA is as much a Republic as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

    Because according to Tea Party logic if someone claims the title (National Socialism for instance) that necessarily means that is what they are...

  23. Then vote them out....

    Its that simple....

    You vote for your house member in a direct vote for your senator in a direct vote for President via the electoral college...

    Your vote is tallied with all of those within your district for your house member and the candidate that wins the most votes is elected.

    You vote for your senator along with everyone else from your state and the one that wins the most votes becomes your Senator...

    Then your house member and your senator go to washington to represent you in this great body known as congress along with all the other house members and senators who were all elected the same way....

    If you believe that your congress critter is corrupt then he/she can only be elected by the votes of some of your neighbors who obviously must like corrupt representation...

    Thus far, elections, one man, one vote...all sounds pretty democratic to me.....what do you think?

    Maybe, just maybe its not the election process but rather the fact that we have only two parties and it takes big money to get elected.


    The only time that a candidate won the popular vote but did not become president was in 2000....

    If we switched to a direct democracy then the states would not matter......other than that its one man one vote.....

    So, your point is?

  24. Tao,
    "The 'control' you talk about is actually 'self control' since this is a democracy and since the government represents the will of the people...."

    he chuckles, nice try, my friend. That is control, period regardless of whether or not it is self-control or control of others.

    and for your information, "people" in that sentence is synonymous with the word "States".
    The word "people" is a collective word not the plural of person.

  25. TAO - Once again your lack of knowledge makes your pronouncements suspect in their totality.

    Rutherford Hayes - Samuel Tilden won the popular vote, and probably the electoral college vote, but the results were fixed to give Hayes the majority.

    Benjamin Harrison - incumbent president Grover Cleveland won the popular vote

    George W. Bush - Al Gore won the popular vote. The electoral college vote was thrown into doubt by peculiarities in Florida's election, and the election was decided by the Supreme Court when they stopped the recount.


    And your elitist and oh so knowledge point is?

  26. TAO - Almost forgot, since you are so knowledgeable I can only assume you get your knowledge from the, oh so reliable revisionist history professors.

  27. Gene- Your point is?

    I have no time for liberal child's play. Should you wish to be clear and engage in actual points of substance I am your man to engage.

    Child's play I leave to the liberal's who love to hear themselves talk BS.

  28. No, Rational, you are correct what I meant to say, 'was in recent history....."

  29. liberal child's play? - the entire TEA PARTY AGENDA is run by this word game belief that Democrat = Nazi because the Nazis used the world Socialist in their name.

    Beck and Fox (not that you support them but they do pander to the TEa Baggers) claim this every night and every Tea Bag Event has this meme highlighted!

    Can you deny this? Is that not a reasonable point to discuss or is it more child's play that the Right is engaged in a giant game of word disassociation?

  30. Gene - The left engages ion as much, if not more of the same BS.

    I stand for reason, whether it be from the left, right or in between.

    Judging from many on the left the same cannot be said of them.


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