tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post7358403538614769763..comments2024-03-28T15:24:53.579-04:00Comments on Rational Nation USA: The Noble Lie...Les Carpenterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-64172814945252404272014-04-18T22:52:12.021-04:002014-04-18T22:52:12.021-04:00As opposed to the Feds who've acted so judicio...As opposed to the Feds who've acted so judiciously, I'm assuming.Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-77782410449564230622014-04-17T22:29:32.734-04:002014-04-17T22:29:32.734-04:00I'm seeing Nevada "sEnator" hArry J...I'm seeing Nevada "sEnator" hArry JACKAS rEid has proclaimed the Bundy family "domestic terrorists." <br /><br />Given the reasonable and thinking person's concept of terrorism would sEnator hArry rEid's <br />statement be a Noble Lie?Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-22991687424218069412014-04-16T18:59:50.714-04:002014-04-16T18:59:50.714-04:00Jersey: Whether or not RN agrees, and whether or n...Jersey: Whether or not RN agrees, and whether or not I agree with all of it... that was a pretty good argument.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-82180354617682686862014-04-16T18:51:37.348-04:002014-04-16T18:51:37.348-04:00More absolute BS from Obama - As numerous economis...More absolute BS from Obama - As numerous economists have pointed out, when you control for key factors such as occupation, education, hours worked, and years of continuous service, women make just as much as men and sometimes more. The bottom-line here is that women just make different choices than men and it is this fact and NOT discrimination which explains the wage disparity.............And you can't compare single men with single women. You have to compare never married men with never married women in that this technique has a tendency to control for continuity in the work force (women not leaving to have kids, etc.).Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-27321811745281378042014-04-16T12:33:14.106-04:002014-04-16T12:33:14.106-04:00Les, progressives have been screaming and yelling ...Les, progressives have been screaming and yelling about that for more than a generation now.<br /><br />And dmarks (thank you for paying attention), there are different aspects of the service sector, higher and lower ends, so to speak. I'm talking about the many millions of retail, healthcare, food, support, and hospitality workers in this country who are treated like abject crap, and they are the single largest bloc of workers in the nation. And remember, the Boomers are retiring now, so an even greater percentage of the workforce will now be relegated to these lousy job "opportunities." Thank God our governments, at the local, state and federal level, treat our entry end workers a little better. Were it not for that, people right down around the minimum wage would make up an even greater percentage of the workforce.<br /><br />When you look at the balance of sectors in America, it is comparable to France and the UK, who are also having the same economic problems, sur-prise, sur-prise. You could blame it on their more socialistic functions, but every other comparable economy with more socialistic functions, has a more balanced economy by sector.<br /><br />America is now nothing but a old-money Free Trade whore now. <br /><br />JMJJersey McJoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15426560061830038806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-77788274153367427922014-04-15T23:44:49.259-04:002014-04-15T23:44:49.259-04:00RN: That seems to be related to Jersey's point...RN: That seems to be related to Jersey's point, actually. If the trend you identify continues, it can very well result in the situation Jersey described (min-wage service sector being the biggest of all). And the manufacturing sector, so much larger than the min-wage service sector, becoming smaller.<br /><br />In all fairness to Jersey, as a progressive, he has a strong record of concern over the US manufacturing sector. I don't think he will discard your point, RN. Unless I totally misread what you said in your interjection...<br /><br />-------------<br /><br />Now, in terms of economies that manufacture little and merely provide services being "poorer", I suppose that might seem what it would be at first thought. However, is it really this way?<br /><br />Compare rich Singapore, a lion of Asia (15% manufacturing, 70% service) to very poor Cuba (a lot more in industry and agriculture, less in service).dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-71451398898918105862014-04-15T22:28:31.461-04:002014-04-15T22:28:31.461-04:00dmarks: "From "Five Myths About The Min...dmarks: "From "Five Myths About The Minimum Wage"<br /><br />Which is an opinion piece, really."<br /><br />And so is your comment.Shaw Kenawehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08637273000409613497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-20361371475196774642014-04-15T22:23:07.816-04:002014-04-15T22:23:07.816-04:00If I may interject. I believe the service sector o...If I may interject. I believe the service sector of our economy is growing while the manufacturing sector is shrinking. Which in my view is the real danger facing our nation. Wealth is created my producing, or production. A economy that produces little and merely services will become increasingly poorer.<br /><br />But hey. Just a fact largely discarded by progressivesLes Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-20479580835745640392014-04-15T22:04:02.841-04:002014-04-15T22:04:02.841-04:00Jersey, I addressed your main point of your commen...Jersey, I addressed your main point of your comment made Mon Apr 14, 10:07:00 PM EDT... that is far from nitpicking to show that the rock-solid economic figures show something very different from what you said.<br /><br />I wasn't "lost" at all. If anyone was "lost", it was the person who made this claim which had nothing to do with the employment/wage world out there. <br /><br />If your "rhetorical device" is to get some sort of point across with wildly inaccurate extreme exaggerations,you are the one that should be criticized, not those who point out the contradicting facts. <br /><br />"Not all service sector jobs pay exactly at the minimum wage" <br /><br />Few do, in fact. Makes one wonder why you said flat-out that this was the largest employment sector in the whole nation.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-64946136557564323282014-04-15T19:04:39.203-04:002014-04-15T19:04:39.203-04:00dmarks, show me the evidence raising the minimum w...dmarks, show me the evidence raising the minimum wage increases unemployment. (I've got news for you - it's not true)<br /><br />JMJJersey McJoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15426560061830038806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-22837374098991989322014-04-15T17:45:25.916-04:002014-04-15T17:45:25.916-04:00dmarks, the way you nit-pick makes it very hard to...dmarks, the way you nit-pick makes it very hard to take you seriously.<br /><br />Not all service sector jobs pay exactly at the minimum wage. Everyone knows that. I've never seen anyone get so stuck on a tree while lost in the forest. I'm sorry you are lost on the slightest rhetorical device, but rhetorical device is what this whole post was about in the place.<br /><br />Get to a higher place, dmarks.<br /><br />JMJJersey McJoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15426560061830038806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-13281222629862470152014-04-15T17:18:58.978-04:002014-04-15T17:18:58.978-04:00So, let's nix performance evaluations, give ev...So, let's nix performance evaluations, give everybody a hug and a big raise, an extra week vacation and call it a day. <br /><br />Evaluations based on measurable performance objectives ove a specific time period with periodic checkpoints and discussions (daily, weekly, monthly) with the employee is effective. Never discuss the employees "attitude" or personality but rather desirable and undesirable or acceptable and unacceptable behaviors.<br /><br />The problem with evaluations is there are too many untrained managers.Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-62713063882992390152014-04-15T16:51:47.828-04:002014-04-15T16:51:47.828-04:00Performance evaluation, which in my experience is ...Performance evaluation, which in my experience is hated by both evaluator and evaluated, varies considerably. At its simplest, does the person do the job well? In the military, I recall they had a little booklet with key words, good and bad, like tact, understanding, personality (or lack thereof). Exceeds expectations: gotta love that. One time, my patent<br />earned an unexpected $ million: this caused consternation in the finance department as<br />an unbudgeted profit, taxes, etc and I received a chewing out (along with 'how's the next<br />project coming along'? Perhaps the evaluation of the CEO by the board: Our stock is down<br />20% this year, profits are at a 10 year low and employee turnover is skyrocketing- so your<br />bonus is only $15 million, but the stock option deal will more than make up for it. Performance reviews: perhaps they SHOULD be rocket science...or discontinued.<br />[despite having a 'Dilbert' attitude, I always got great ones, but still....]BB-Idahohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01388509941702241290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-51985402776361158522014-04-15T11:10:54.229-04:002014-04-15T11:10:54.229-04:00Errors seem to be abundant.
Noted and taken under...Errors seem to be abundant.<br /><br />Noted and taken under advisement.Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-42871550236626448062014-04-15T11:06:56.586-04:002014-04-15T11:06:56.586-04:00So noted.So noted.Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-15656454922635038292014-04-15T10:18:34.034-04:002014-04-15T10:18:34.034-04:00On the subject, the only evidence of such sexist w...On the subject, the only evidence of such sexist wage discrimination is found here:<br /><br />"According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, single women who have never married earned 96% of men's earnings in 2012."<br /><br />That's a 4% difference. Not saying it is too small to address, but it needs to be addressed. And the proposed "equal pay" laws are not the way to do this, as most of what it changes are wage differences that have nothing to do with any sex discrimination.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-88116659636918527772014-04-15T09:36:47.594-04:002014-04-15T09:36:47.594-04:00There are reasons why some employees may be retice...There are reasons why some employees may be reticent about discussing their wages: Perhaps shame, or fear of receiving a lecture about financial management, or perhaps confusion in being unable to distinguish gross pay from net pay after taxes, or perhaps an overwhelming sense of privacy when discussing personal financial matters. The error in your anecdotal account is that you have no concrete evidence upon which to base your subjective judgment.(O)CT(O)PUShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07589336822561030860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-90236189298587825992014-04-15T09:27:36.503-04:002014-04-15T09:27:36.503-04:00No, I did not imply that you were making it up;.
...No, I did not imply that you were making it up;. <br /><br />"even if" "even though": phrase You use "even if" or "even though" to indicate that a particular fact does not make the rest of your statement untrue. <br /><br />Shaw Kenawehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08637273000409613497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-81601266948471829982014-04-15T09:08:52.135-04:002014-04-15T09:08:52.135-04:00RN said: "very subjective "living wage.&...RN said: "very subjective "living wage.""<br /><br />I see you agree with me at least partially (but only so far) on the idea that the "living wage" idea is very subjective<br /><br />A living wage for a teenager in a middle class family who is working at the Walmart checkout is $0.<br /><br />A living wage for a single mom with two kids working on the next aisle might be $50,000 a year<br /><br />A living wage for a single man with major living expenses might be over $100,000.<br /><br />------------<br /><br />Any attempt to define this always results in "one size fits few". Rather than treat employers as a sort of agency with unlimited funds to shovel out a huge proportion of unearned money along with the earnings on a paycheck, I strongly support <b>means tested</b> government aid programs.<br /><br />RN: you said: "BTW, all the companies I worked for paid their employees welll above the minimum wage. They were paid based on skill level of job performed"<br /><br />The idea of some sort of imaginary pulled-from-the-a** "one size fits few" living wage being mandated, or even the minimum wage (I know you disagree on that one) completely negates the idea of paying on the job performed or anything "based on skill required to preform a job and or responsibility. "<br /><br />dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-50458446294814412242014-04-15T08:58:46.811-04:002014-04-15T08:58:46.811-04:00"And even if that happened in your experience..."And even if that happened in your experience..."<br /><br />Ah, now Shaw you are implying, intentionally or not, that I'm making this up or lying. So noted.<br /><br />"... what does it have to do with giving people a living wage?"<br /><br />The point is if someone does not even know what they are being paid how can they know what they need for that very subjective "living wage.". Perhaps it's about budgeting, or perhaps it is not about what is needed but about what is wanted.<br /><br />At any rate I am not opposed to seeing an reasonable increase in the minimum wage. But I feel very confident in saying that in a very short time you and others will be clamoring for a $15.00/hr minimum wage, or a $20.00hr.<br /><br />BTW, all the companies I worked for paid their employees welll above the minimum wage. They were paid based on skill level of job performed, insurance was truly affordable and plans were available to fit individual needs, 401K plans were part of the benefit plans, a couple gave employees matching contributions or a % of employee contribution, and one had profit sharing.<br /><br /><br />Companies generally pay based on skill required to preform a job and or responsibility. <br /><br /><br />What we are experiencing is the modern day <br />version of the 19th and 20th century "class <br />struggle."<br />struggleLes Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-76794304540609378472014-04-15T08:53:29.748-04:002014-04-15T08:53:29.748-04:00"From "Five Myths About The Minimum Wage..."From "Five Myths About The Minimum Wage"<br /><br />Which is an opinion piece, really.<br /><br />The same source, the Washington Post, has another article where they step back from pure opinion and report on this issue in a more journalistic fashion: <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/02/14/why-economists-are-so-puzzled-by-the-minimum-wage/" rel="nofollow">here</a><br /><br />"Economists disagree on whether the minimum wage kills jobs. Why?"<br /><br />It is also interesting to note that the defenders of the minimum wage increases have an allowable number of lost jobs. As if 2000 jobs lost to this were an acceptable loss (articles by defenders of it that refer to the job losses as existing, but "small"). It is my opinion that this is 2000 jobs too many, and we should have policies which gain jobs, not lose more and more.<br /><br />The number of people fired as a result of bad regulations (<a href = "http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/278587/14/GVSU-Study-1000-jobs-lost-due-to-Obamacare->this included</A>) is made up of the total accumulation of such "small" numbers".dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-85005212521461233232014-04-15T08:40:04.078-04:002014-04-15T08:40:04.078-04:00"Paying workers more often leads them to feel..."Paying workers more often leads them to feel better about their work and reduces stress,"<br /><br />I suppose, then, if we pay paperboys $110,000 a year, we will get such better paper delivery than we would get otherwise...<br /><br />"Look up Costco and see how that company has thrived by paying its workers a living wage"<br /><br />The living wage concept is completely invalid: as it varies wildly from person to person. Also, it is a matter of lifestyle choice so much of the time. <br /><br />Overlooked also is that Costco employes a fraction of the workers employed by Walmart (about one-tenth as many). I am sure Walmart could boost wages a lot, too, if it fired most of its workers and became more on the level of Costco. One of the reasons Walmart is a lot bigger is that it employs a lot more people, including those with low skills that demand low wages. People who would be left unemployed, and 100% subsidized by the government in a Costco world.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-84083843514026149702014-04-15T08:35:33.315-04:002014-04-15T08:35:33.315-04:00One of Jersey's several claims that stood out ...One of Jersey's several claims that stood out as quite questionable was this one: " The shitty, lousy, tedious, part-time, minimum wage, service sector is now the number one employer in the nation."<br /><br />I knew he had to be wrong. I've always known that minimum wage earners are a rather small proportion of the workforce.<br /><br />But lets see how small...<br /><br />Checking <a href="http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/dec/08/rob-portman/rob-portman-says-about-2-percent-americans-get-pai/" rel="nofollow">PolitiFact</a>, a left-leaning fact-check site (so you can't go all Ema on me and bring up MurdochFoxNews)<br /><br />They analyze the numbers and come up with <b>less than 3%</b> (a little less than 4 million workers) making minimum wage. That's pretty small, not Number One anything. <br /><br />How is it compared to other sectors? How about manufacturing? According to the <a href="http://www.nam.org/Statistics-And-Data/Facts-About-Manufacturing/Landing.aspx" rel="nofollow">NAM</a> (if you can find a better source, I'd welcome it), there are 12 million Americans employed in manufacturing. That's 4 times LARGER than the sector that you said was the number one employer in the nation. This is the manufacturing sector, by the way, that you have frequently bashed and said didn't exist. <br /><br />And these workers are <a href="http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wages-in-manufacturing" rel="nofollow">paid</a> about $19 an hour.<br /><br />Jersey, with all due respect, you'd do a lot better at making "serious points" if you did not throw out economic claims that are so wildly "off" like this, or use careless "you guys" claims (always a weak argument).<br /><br />------<br /><br />RN: you are quite correct to criticize Jersey for bashing the mentally disabled with his "functionally retarded" smear. He may think it is "political correctness" that makes me criticize him for hating on these people. But to me it is basic human decency.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-89076834062278195082014-04-15T08:22:07.754-04:002014-04-15T08:22:07.754-04:00BB: Performance evaluation is not rocket science. ...BB: Performance evaluation is not rocket science. It's quite common all over the place. <br /><br />However, you don't have tenure on a factory line to make it harder to fire someone who is bad, or in the offices of United Way, or or or...<br /><br />" It is as hard to find a rich teacher as it is to find a poor banker, IMO!"<br /><br />How about the ones making $100,000? And who are not doing so out of any sort of merit or excellence?dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-86323470582424051462014-04-15T07:47:38.678-04:002014-04-15T07:47:38.678-04:00I worked in management as well, as the head of two...I worked in management as well, as the head of two departments in a high tech company, one of which was Human Resources. I never encountered what you've described. And even if that happened in your experience, what does it have to do with giving people a living wage?<br /><br />Look up Costco and see how that company has thrived by paying its workers a living wage. Then compare that with WalMart, a company that does not, and as a result, the US government has to subsidize WalMart's employees with food stamps. Costco pays its employees enough money so that the US government doesn't have to subsidize them.<br /><br />Shaw Kenawehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08637273000409613497noreply@blogger.com