tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post6856287422771004901..comments2024-03-07T08:27:01.482-05:00Comments on Rational Nation USA: Obama Administration Declares That It Has Met Its Goal Of ObamaCare Site Improvement...Les Carpenterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-50844799563877132122013-12-06T15:40:54.226-05:002013-12-06T15:40:54.226-05:00You are correct. I do not believe that. They want ...You are correct. I do not believe that. They want to reduce government to the point where it is powerless... and then some say it should be drowned in a bathtub. But Les apparently has never heard that argument (or denies anyone ever made made it).Dervish Sandershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13671865801885224353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-33453003878433266672013-12-05T22:36:46.797-05:002013-12-05T22:36:46.797-05:00The conservatives and libertarians hate government...The conservatives and libertarians hate government meme is pure BS Mr. Sanders. Just progressive hyperbole. Fact is with the exception of the extreme fringe conservatives and libertarians recognize government has a purpose as defined by our constitution. It is the question of how much government and how much control government should have that is the issue. But I get you don't believe that Mr. Sanders. Certainly your right, and rightly so, to believe whateve you want to believe.<br /><br />I will agree to disagree with your premise.Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-24702680774252978642013-12-05T14:21:29.448-05:002013-12-05T14:21:29.448-05:00"Those in control" are the VOTERS. "..."Those in control" are the VOTERS. "Power lust"? No, just a desire to have government work for the betterment of all. But, that the Conservatives and Libertarians hate government is no surprise, as they wish to turn control over to the plutocrats. The Left will continue to fight these efforts and NOT fall for the "real solutions" Dennis mentions.Dervish Sandershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13671865801885224353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-4789994913217962022013-12-04T19:57:35.399-05:002013-12-04T19:57:35.399-05:00Yeah, I'm kind of like that Japanese soldier s...Yeah, I'm kind of like that Japanese soldier still hiding out in the South Pacific well into the '60s.Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-69771886163608893402013-12-04T19:44:40.331-05:002013-12-04T19:44:40.331-05:00No, what would be the best, and it is doable (I th...No, what would be the best, and it is doable (I think), is to energize the reasonable, non partisan, rational, moderate, thinking, understanding, logically compassionate, educated, inquisitive, and ultimately concerned and patriotic American CITIZEN to do the RIGHT thing and turn out to vote in ALL elections. Local, State, and Federal.<br /><br />Time to kick the HYPERBOLE and PLATITUDES to the curbside. If the progressives and Socon/Tea Party folks fail to "get it", well then it might be time to dissolve the Union and grant supreme sovereignty to the 50 individual states.Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-6042412147324866122013-12-04T19:26:35.646-05:002013-12-04T19:26:35.646-05:00Will, Will, Will, haven't you yet matured to t...Will, Will, Will, haven't you yet matured to the realization that the ONLY POSSIBLE way to arrive at a workable health insurance plan and system is through GOVERNMENT mandates and regulation ultimately leading to the progressives desired SINGLE payer (GOVERNMENT) reality? Snark now off.<br /><br />Really there is a better way. But both delusional sides are too vested in heir own ideological BS to find at workable solution, let alone the best.Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-28072300983878906192013-12-04T18:52:09.810-05:002013-12-04T18:52:09.810-05:00I still say that what John Mackey of Whole Foods i...I still say that what John Mackey of Whole Foods is doing over there is unquestionably the best approach and the only real way other than government rationing to bend the cost curve. And the fact that it largely limits the power of these dreaded insurance companies is something that the left should be beaming over, I'm thinking.Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-63469759012301182362013-12-04T18:28:53.872-05:002013-12-04T18:28:53.872-05:00Loonies that blocked other loonies. and you have ...Loonies that blocked other loonies. and you have to admit out the breaks on some of the madness such as the greenscam handouts and blocking Obama's attempts to end the middle class tax cut package.<br /><br />RN, of course it would be great if we had much less corrupt leaders working a lot more for the public good. But when when all we can get is one group of loonies blocking the other group, might it be the second best thing?<br />dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-10779704662133003762013-12-04T18:23:28.387-05:002013-12-04T18:23:28.387-05:00RN... I don't think I was converted or arrive...RN... I don't think I was converted or arrived at a faulty conclusion. I'm sure your have a reason for your conclusion...dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-44397601291950846252013-12-04T18:16:26.286-05:002013-12-04T18:16:26.286-05:00Jersey: if you don't like accurate descriptio...Jersey: if you don't like accurate description, don't tell such massive whoppers like saying a situation which massive sums are taken and $0 is given is "welfare".<br /><br /> And it was you who bashed illegal immigrants in a side comment, not me. If the shoe fits...dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-52627934270979608812013-12-04T18:05:02.617-05:002013-12-04T18:05:02.617-05:00Some may think you a "sleazy idiot scumbag&qu...Some may think you a "sleazy idiot scumbag" jmj. Of course that would be nothing more or less tan an inaccurate perception on their part. And, they would be wrong.<br /><br />Think about it.<br /><br />dmarks... using convoluted reasoning to arrive at what is erroneous or faulty conclusions does nothing to further problem solving or dialogue.<br /><br />Not that either "sh*t." They're too immersed in justifying their own perceptions to be bothered with reality and finding real solutions to mutual problems.. Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-28306847717444143562013-12-04T17:54:54.852-05:002013-12-04T17:54:54.852-05:00Did he? Are you sure? Do you really believe 2010 ...Did he? Are you sure? Do you really believe 2010 had that much of an impact? Other than to vote in a few more loonies.Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-41545253881931734542013-12-04T17:21:36.122-05:002013-12-04T17:21:36.122-05:00Don't call me a liar or say I bash immigrants,...Don't call me a liar or say I bash immigrants, you sleazy idiot scumbag.<br /><br />JMJJersey McJoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15426560061830038806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-84056059987715484862013-12-04T15:50:50.456-05:002013-12-04T15:50:50.456-05:00Yes, we know that some on the hardcore fringe lef...Yes, we know that some on the hardcore fringe left want government control of health care. And no that has nothing to sui with democracy, and everything to do with maximizing statism/collectivism. And it cuts through evasive "weasel words" such as "public option."<br /><br /> Satisfying the power lust of those in control in this fashion does nothing to solve the problems RN properly identified. That is because the main goal of such an approach is expanding the government, not improving health care.<br /><br />Let's work on real solutions, and stop proposing dangerous and unpopular extreme "solutions". Yes, RN, I am thankful that single-payer is not in the table. dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-6274239731794150552013-12-04T14:07:23.143-05:002013-12-04T14:07:23.143-05:00"Monkey see, monkey do", Dennis. Will Ha..."Monkey see, monkey do", Dennis. Will Hart used the term "word salad" in reference to something I wrote first... Dennis repeats it just like he repeats the "canardo" insult. Proof that Dennis is far more guilty of word salads is his insistence that the word "enamored" applies. Those of us on the Left wanted single payer but would have been happy with a public option. We got neither and only begrudgingly supported the ACA because it was all that was on the table. Acknowledging that something is better than nothing is not enamorment. In any case, thank you for identifying my view of democracy as the enlightened one (and yours as the unenlightened one). Once in a while Dennis speaks the truth, even if it is unintentional.Dervish Sandershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13671865801885224353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-72563316593057880442013-12-04T13:09:09.882-05:002013-12-04T13:09:09.882-05:00I know exactly what I am talking about, and now...I know exactly what I am talking about, and now we know you are lying about all this.. taking a tax break, which is merely a situation of the government stealing a little less from restaurants and calling it "welfare".<br /><br />Not sure why you choose this opportunity to bash immigrants.. but it seems in this issue you are a liar and I venture to say, an idiot. But not a very useful one.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-63102180917571175642013-12-04T12:39:45.370-05:002013-12-04T12:39:45.370-05:00" Chose" can be used loosely, RN. For ..." Chose" can be used loosely, RN. For example, the Republicans in Michigan banned Johnson from the state ballot this year.<br /><br />Yes Obama inherited a bad situation... but he chose to make it worse also. The decline also leveled off thanks to the 2010 election and gridlock replacing rubber-stamping.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-47637821354165389482013-12-04T12:28:56.767-05:002013-12-04T12:28:56.767-05:00Obama inherited a bad, very bad situation. I many ...Obama inherited a bad, very bad situation. I many respects, OBAMAFART aside, he continued on much the same path. It is not certain but it is very likely had it been McCaIn and or Romney this economy would still be anemic right now.<br /><br />The world has changed, American business has changed, it is global competition in a global economy. On several levels, domestic and internationally this country. its government and its businesses have been too shortsighted, stupid, or both to look beyond the present of the next quarter or two.<br /><br />Obama has many flaws, so did GWB. Possibly the least effective presidents in our history. But there is ample blame to spread around. <br /><br />The people of the country chose BHO twice. Largely IMO because the alternative(s) were lousey as well. Gary Johnson excluded from the preceeding statement.<br /><br />I anxiously await the departure of BHO. I just hope the alternative put up against likely Demoncrat candidate HRC is qualified, personable. has a realistic vision that resonates with s diverse America, and has the ability to speak honestly and openly about the very real need to fiscal responsibility and restraint.Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-32401836976321121572013-12-04T12:17:38.580-05:002013-12-04T12:17:38.580-05:00You don't know what I'm talking about, dma...You don't know what I'm talking about, dmarks. Do you know what expensing is? Did you know that 20 years ago the Clinton administration tried to cut that crony tax break and the restaurant industry spent millions on lobbyists to stop action in congress because they said it would break them? Useful idiots like you support this sleazy industry, support crony capitalism, support illegal immigration, because you don't know what you're talking about.<br /><br />JMJ Jersey McJoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15426560061830038806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-48872989175781243652013-12-04T11:53:32.015-05:002013-12-04T11:53:32.015-05:00right Will. and even Jersey has admitted that ... right Will. and even Jersey has admitted that it clobbers restaurant workers... even though he blames another victim group ( restauranteurs) in a half-hearted unsupported fashion.<br /><br /> anyway, Will. if you are looking for Obama's current jobs program, this is it. Sure to be as successful as the stimulus programs early in his administration... under which the nation's workforce shed millions of jobs.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-53408453493416402402013-12-04T08:43:22.102-05:002013-12-04T08:43:22.102-05:00"Wherever you find human beings you find NONS...<b><i>"Wherever you find human beings you find NONSENSE -- layers and layers of NONSENSE."</i></b><br /><br />~ Thornton Wilder - Our Town, The Stage Manager<br /><br />I think he was really onto something, don't you? ;-)FreeThinkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16682678301019952436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-19233962643868326202013-12-04T06:46:01.217-05:002013-12-04T06:46:01.217-05:00Jersey said: "the main victims of the 30 hour...Jersey said: "the main victims of the 30 hour rule are restaurant workers"<br /><br />At last something which steers toward reality. Though I am not sure if workers who are punished by Obamacare are mainly restaurant workers.<br /><br />"because the restaurant industry treats its workers like shit."<br /><br />Well, this is not true in any way. Read the mandate. The only reason for these victims is that the Obamacare law includes a FINE to punish and discourage employers from having anyone work more than 30 hours a week. It's not the doing of the employers, but 100% the doing of those in Congress and the White House who seek to destroy healthcare while giving workers a massive pay cut.<br /><br />Overall, the statement is non factual also, because if the workers were being treated like sh*t, they wouldn't be working there.<br /><br />"...welfare state..."<br /><br />Completely baseless. The restaurant industry pays a massive amount of taxes to the government. Not the other way around. <br /><br />I give you a challenge. Jersey: Call any of the diners on this list:<a href="http://njdiners.com/cgi-bin/listing.cgi" rel="nofollow">click here</a>. Ask any of them if they are welfare queens, beneficiaries of crony capitalism.<br /><br />Meanwhile, if it wasn't for expensing, the welfare state that is the restaurant industry would be in serious trouble. Just more crony capitalist hypocrisy.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-73738265304550199942013-12-03T23:29:14.514-05:002013-12-03T23:29:14.514-05:00I've defended Obamacare in the past (at least ...I've defended Obamacare in the past (at least the individual mandate component of it) to the extent that it essentially is the 1993 Republican counterpart to Hillarycare. But I'm pretty sure that the Heritage Foundation would have not been down with the 1,471 exemptions (now THERE'S some crony capitalism for ya', Jersey), the idiotic number of Kafkaesque mandates (pregnancy coverage for 50-somethings, alcohol and drug rehabilitation coverage for Mormons, the fact that the Little Sisters of the Poor now have to provide birth control, etc.), or the preposterous incentive structure. I mean, have you guys even looked at the tables? As it stands now, a couple with no kids making about the same amount of money would have to pay a premium of $5,894 if there income was $62,040 and $16,382 if there income was $62,041. I ask you, what kind of a bunch of imbeciles would construct a policy that would so drastically disincentivise earnings like this? Especially during a shaky recovery!Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-56698995393891437972013-12-03T21:55:57.478-05:002013-12-03T21:55:57.478-05:00dmarks, the main victims of the 30 hour rule are r...dmarks, the main victims of the 30 hour rule are restaurant workers, because the restaurant industry treats its workers like shit. Meanwhile, if it wasn't for expensing, the welfare state that is the restaurant industry would be in serious trouble. Just more crony capitalist hypocrisy.<br /><br />JMJJersey McJoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15426560061830038806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-55420741719292243022013-12-03T20:58:26.089-05:002013-12-03T20:58:26.089-05:00Found writ small in a bowl of word salad: "de...Found writ small in a bowl of word salad: "demand more democracy (which you called "government control")."<br /><br />I read what Les said... in complete context. He was referring to government control, not democracy.<br /><br />There is a viewpoint that the concept of "democracy" as a method of the rulers controlling the people. There is another (in my view, much more enlightened view) of "democracy" as a method of the people controlling the rulers. From the context of his words, I would venture that Les might fall in the latter camp.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.com