tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post6479134286035275227..comments2024-03-29T07:18:10.425-04:00Comments on Rational Nation USA: Race Baiting at the Highest Level of the Federal Government...?Les Carpenterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comBlogger74125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-19195239504658684082024-01-22T08:46:13.716-05:002024-01-22T08:46:13.716-05:00No use attempting discussion with a closed mind th...No use attempting discussion with a closed mind that has reified their belief system looking backwards.Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-74239215532005025422013-07-22T15:59:36.127-04:002013-07-22T15:59:36.127-04:00"And don't you also find it hilarious and..."And don't you also find it hilarious and ironic that wd, a person who is 100% orthodox leftist"<br /><br />WD is someone to whom "both sides of the issue" means checking with Rachel Maddow first and getting a second opinion from Mr. Armenian Genocide (Cenk Uygar).<br /><br />Complete balance, that.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-34591824910506040622013-07-22T08:50:38.024-04:002013-07-22T08:50:38.024-04:00I recognize my error; just realize that.I recognize my error; just realize that.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-26862582296730680312013-07-22T08:31:38.413-04:002013-07-22T08:31:38.413-04:00Yes Will, it is quite interesting, yes amusing.Yes Will, it is quite interesting, yes amusing.Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-33892084331849019972013-07-22T08:07:51.806-04:002013-07-22T08:07:51.806-04:00I note your attempt to use my words to support you...I note your attempt to use my words to support your assertion. I therefore reassert my statement as originally written.Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-24545081749278090162013-07-22T08:02:50.013-04:002013-07-22T08:02:50.013-04:00Shaw said: "This country was founded by liber...Shaw said: "This country was founded by liberals."<br /><br />The word means something a LOT different now, as Les implied. Sorry, Shaw, the country was not founded by modern liberals. Case in point:<br /><br />- The founding fathers specifically placed limits on the rapaciousness of the rulers. Modern Liberals believe in the supremacy of the State.<br />- The founding fathers gave us the 2nd Amendment to protest the basic human right of self defense. So many on the Left wants to <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Repeal%20the%20Second%20Amendment%20RSA" rel="nofollow">repeal this amendment</a> and take away this freedom.<br />- The founding fathers gave us the First Amendment SPECIFICALLY to protect the right of the people to criticize those in power. Modern Liberals have a "Move to Amend" to abolish this right. <br /><br />Let us also quote some founding fathers, who had views decidedly opposite of those of modern liberals:<br /><br />"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Jefferson<br /><br />"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare… The powers of Congress would subvert the very foundation, the very nature of the limited government established by the people of America." - Alexander Hamilton<br /><br />"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I traveled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." - Benjamin Franklin.<br /><br />Les, you are right with your point about the religions beliefs, also. But the modern liberal ideas on taxation, the supremacy of the state, and the creation of a welfare class with a life of ease are also entirely the opposite of modern liberals. dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-54940961244553576242013-07-22T07:53:44.555-04:002013-07-22T07:53:44.555-04:00Les said: "And given Obama has followed prett...Les said: "And given Obama has followed pretty much the same track as Bush the policy issues affecting the economy have been pretty consistent."<br /><br />There are some differences that are having an impact, such as the specific provisions of "Obamacare" which are problematic. This includes the provision to force medical equipment makers to fire people or move off shore, and of course the (now delayed, thankfully) provision to discourage companies from hiring more than 50 people or pay people to work more than 30 hours.<br /><br />But yes we have not learned from the mistakes of the past. Fannie and Freddie are STILL there, meddling with the housing market in a dangerous way.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-61557415699750625122013-07-22T07:51:04.344-04:002013-07-22T07:51:04.344-04:00Thanks for explaining the subtlety of this better,...Thanks for explaining the subtlety of this better, Les.<br /><br />A verdict of "not guilty" is not an action that implies innocence. Innocence is implied by the "default" presumption.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-69138715719506384552013-07-21T23:31:39.495-04:002013-07-21T23:31:39.495-04:00I believe that would be Classical Liberalism.
Als...I believe that would be Classical Liberalism.<br /><br />Also, I wonder what those Classical Liberals, many who were also deist would say about illiberal rigid religous beliefs if they spilled over into secular government.<br /><br />My appology for interjecting. I know your comment was for Shaw but I didn't want to lose my thought.Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-23088684569462253022013-07-21T23:10:53.155-04:002013-07-21T23:10:53.155-04:00@ Shaw: This country was founded by liberals.
Wh...@ Shaw: <i>This country was founded by liberals.</i><br /><br />What calumny! Equating your ilk with the founders.<br /><br />There is nothing liberal about today's doctrinaire, dogmatic, so-called 'liberals.'<br /><br />Today's 'liberals' are a klatch of we-say-so progressive statists, and the founders would recognize you only as a foreign force hell-bent on destroying their experiment, which the Progressive Long March has almost accomplished.<br /><br />I readily admit that my personal religious beliefs are rigid and illiberal, but my politics are not.<br /><br />If only 'liberals' were truly liberal in the fashion of the founders, we would not be mired in the multitrillion dollar quagmire we find ourselves in.<br /><br /> Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-86385617666045714542013-07-21T22:47:04.721-04:002013-07-21T22:47:04.721-04:00I shall allow wd/DS to respond to your opening rem...I shall allow wd/DS to respond to your opening remarks as I frankly have not kept s close watch on all his utterances. I would be most pleased if he decides to respond and clear up any inaccuracies he finds in your allegations. A concise rebuttal would be most welcome.<br /><br /><br />Again, a verdict of "not quilty" does not neccessarily imply innocence. It does default to fully restoring to the individual found "not guilty" of the charges brought against him/her their full freedom.Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-77612121122816415072013-07-21T22:19:51.971-04:002013-07-21T22:19:51.971-04:00Also, WD's hatred for the Constitution is quit...Also, WD's hatred for the Constitution is quite prevalent elsewhere. Remember the discussion in which he argued in favor of censorship of political expression, and used the argument that the First Amendment only protects the freedom of expression for a narrowly-defined, government-approved "press". WD sees the mention of freedom of the press not for what it really is (an emphasis), but as a limitation (only this). Which puts him at odds with his betters, along with the entire civil liberties community. He has a reputation of opposition to such basic human rights which the Bill of Rights enumerate and help to protect.<br /><br />This is not too far off topic, it now seems that the presumption of innocence is something he is ignorant about and/or holds in contempt.<br /><br />"Although the Constitution of the United States does not cite it explicitly, presumption of innocence is widely held to follow from the 5th, 6th, and 14th amendments. See also Coffin v. United States and In re Winship."<br /><br />Yes, Les. I agree that the court did not find Zimmerman to be innocent. Zimmerman's innocence is the default state, absent any conviction. dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-48558336815700113872013-07-21T22:12:19.116-04:002013-07-21T22:12:19.116-04:00Les: My point was referring to the presumption of ...Les: My point was referring to the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence" rel="nofollow">presumption of innocence</a>, which is the default position. George Zimmerman is back at this point, now that the court proceeding is over.<br /><br />Les said "Zimmerman was not guilty of the charges brought by the DA. Who, IMHO brought the wrong charges."<br /><br />I don't disagree with you. dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-61036853965556978262013-07-21T22:08:26.737-04:002013-07-21T22:08:26.737-04:00Les said: "Is the IRS boondoggle discussion g...Les said: "Is the IRS boondoggle discussion germain to this post?"<br /><br />Not really. I wonder why Shaw felt the need to say something so ridiculous about it. But at least it is put to bed now...dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-76651138417319721192013-07-21T21:11:35.896-04:002013-07-21T21:11:35.896-04:00It's a shame that Benghazi didn't turn out...<i>It's a shame that Benghazi didn't turn out to be the impeachable offense the rightwing was praying for</i><br /><br />Typical political team sports.<br /><br />No, Shaw. It's a shame people died while our government dithered.<br /><br />And you're wrong. President Obama is not a demon. Tragically, he is a man woefully in over his head, and we're all suffering the consequences.Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-63416731100765899752013-07-21T20:56:34.835-04:002013-07-21T20:56:34.835-04:00I agree it is HIGHLY unlikely history will determi...I agree it is HIGHLY unlikely history will determine President Obama to be the best of the best. That is merely hyperbole and wishful thinking on Shaw's part.<br /><br />However, just as Obama cannot create jobs neither can he destroy millions of jobs. Only the market can do that. And given Obama has followed pretty much the same track as Bush the policy issues affecting the economy have been pretty consistent.<br /><br />But. ideologues on both sides prefer to evade this reality.Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-26498484992715070882013-07-21T20:43:26.273-04:002013-07-21T20:43:26.273-04:00Is the IRS boondoggle discussion germain to this p...Is the IRS boondoggle discussion germain to this post?Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-53654593302317758242013-07-21T20:33:39.968-04:002013-07-21T20:33:39.968-04:00Obama can't be anywhere near the best of the b...Obama can't be anywhere near the best of the best considering the millions of jobs he has lost. But I will give him a pat on the back if he can ever get his deficits down to Bush's levels. Not holding my breath on that though.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-25672861624169978512013-07-21T20:31:09.920-04:002013-07-21T20:31:09.920-04:00Shaw: the food stamp thing proves nothing. A lot o...Shaw: the food stamp thing proves nothing. A lot of wealthy and well-off people are on food stamps...and the Dems are blocking reforms to stop this form of welfare for the rich.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-50231679013942950102013-07-21T20:27:46.014-04:002013-07-21T20:27:46.014-04:00Shaw, the IRS scandal is real. You only call it a ...Shaw, the IRS scandal is real. You only call it a non-scandal because you think it is OK for the IRS to threaten people with a tax penalty for speaking out on the issues of the day. That is indeed scandalous.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-56130901855403003912013-07-21T19:03:38.450-04:002013-07-21T19:03:38.450-04:00And a point on race here. If Obama had a kid with ...And a point on race here. If Obama had a kid with a white woman, that youngster would have exactly the same amount of African blood as Zimmerman's mother and uncle (1/4th black). At what point is a person not black I'd like to know.............And just because the cops screwed up Zimmerman's race, that doesn't give the media and the left carte blanche to do the same (again, I ask you, do a split screen on Zimmerman and Melissa Harris-Perry and see what you see, folks) - not by a long shot.Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-35350482270037749672013-07-21T18:57:49.817-04:002013-07-21T18:57:49.817-04:00Just for the record, Shaw, I don't particularl...Just for the record, Shaw, I don't particularly care for either of them; Bush 2 OR Obama (this, though, I did vote for the latter in 2008). But I also appreciate your intellectual honesty on this one and maybe folks like wd could take some notes here.Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-90433978163683677742013-07-21T18:57:41.630-04:002013-07-21T18:57:41.630-04:00wd/DS, yes we agree on this point.
However, my pu...wd/DS, yes we agree on this point.<br /><br />However, my purpose is to point out the incorrect nature of dmarks statement as a oversight, and a quite important oversight. Not make dmarks appear unintelligent or idiotic as you have choosen to do.<br /><br />He is neither. Regardless of what you may think.<br />Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-44539198763423357522013-07-21T18:16:44.106-04:002013-07-21T18:16:44.106-04:00RN: Zimmerman was found not guilty by a jury of hi...<i>RN: Zimmerman was found not guilty by a jury of his peers. Not guilty and innocent are not synonymous.</i><br /><br />So we agree that Dennis is grossly uninformed with his idiotic statement concerning the Constitution saying GZ is innocent.Dervish Sandershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13671865801885224353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8549971354391868786.post-57424162763660525222013-07-21T17:40:01.081-04:002013-07-21T17:40:01.081-04:00... " Look, the liberals did the very same th...... " Look, the liberals did the very same thing when Dubya was president--they made him into a demon..."<br /><br />Thank you for your honesty Shaw. It is why your views as a progressive merit deserve consideration and respect.<br /><br />"just like you're doing here with Obama! La comedia e' stupenda!"<br /><br />Once again, even given your progressive tendencies I personally must agree 100% with this.<br /><br />As Forest Gump's Mom was reported as saying, "Stupid is as Stupid does." Neither ideological side has a lock on stupidity.<br /><br />My sincerest apologies if I intruded in this thread with my response. However, as one might say, this is my site.<br />Les Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120280762698472496noreply@blogger.com