Saturday, May 12, 2012

Shades of Black Success

 The discrimination theory relative to African-American underachievement is an exceedingly flawed one, and all that you really need to do to see this is to look at just how well that West Indian blacks (who were also the victims of slavery) and African immigrants do by comparison.....................................................................................................I mean, think about it here. For the discrimination theory to be even remotely logical, the following in fact would have to take place: A West Indian black or an African immigrant goes into into a company and applies for a job. The white manager sees the dark-skinned person come onto the room and right off the bat starts thinking to himself, "Alright, this is a dark-skinned person. I'm going to have to try to give him the 1,2,3,4 and get him the hell out of here." But THEN the dark-skinned person speaks and once the white manager hears that the individual speaks with an accent, his mental process rapidly shifts to one of, "Oh, wait a minute, this dude has an accent and this probably means that he's in fact one of the good ones. I will definitely have to give this fellow a fair shake."............................................................................................................You see what I'm saying here? It's absurd. There has to be something above and beyond simple discrimination that's driving this issue; a cultural/familial component, a disincentive component, a government component, an educational component, etc.. There has to be, and we have to figure it out quickly.

17 comments:

  1. Will,

    You have made some really absurd arguments in the past but I do believe that this one easily surpasses all the rest! Would you care to move beyond talking to yourself and maybe explain to us what the difference is between an "African Immigrant" and a "West Indian blacks?"

    Then you might want to move on and deal with your real point, which you did not make at any point, which is why do blacks born in the USA "experience" discrimination and obviously, using your example "African Immigrants" and or "West Indian blacks" do not. I am assuming that is your point.

    Then whether you realize it or not, you have already showed blatant discrimination in your own example. When the manager comments upon hearing the foreign accent from a black skinned person he exclaims, "Oh, wait a minute, this dude has an accent and this probably means that he's in fact one of the good ones. I will definitely have to give this fellow a fair shake."

    Obviously, your own example which features a white manager who upon seeing a black person already has determined that this person is worthless as an employee until he talks...

    That's discrimination! Your own example proves that its discrimination is just a mental construct in a white person's head...which I think I can safely assume what not the point you were trying to make....

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  2. I was trying to show the absurdity of thinking that a bigoted person would only be bigoted to one segment of the black population in America. If discrimination is the major factor as to why African-Americans don't do well (as an average, I'm saying - some African-Americans do exceedingly well) academically and occupationally in this country, then African immigrants (i.e., black people who have recently moved from Africa to America) and West Indian blacks (black people who come to America from the Caribbean) would also have to be doing poorly AND THEY'RE NOT. Do you understand now?

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  3. I really had to explain to you what an African immigrant and a West Indian black were? And the point is that a true bigot would be bigoted to ALL black people regardless of where they came from or the dialect that they spoke with. How could you not understand the irony and facetiousness here?

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    1. Not really, but you might want to explain exactly what your logic was...

      First off, you acknowledge race as a basis of discrimination in your own example. Then you claim that while skin color was the initial basis for discrimination, the manager upon hearing a black person talk, decided that dialect made a difference. So, I guess all we have to do is teach blacks to talk with an accent, one of an immigrant or foreigner, and discrimination goes away.

      The reality is that slavery was abolished by the French and the British in the West Indies years before the Civil War; at which time the blacks in the West Indies became a majority of the population.

      In the United States we replaced slavery with Jim Crow laws, which stayed on the books until the 1960's and would still be on the books if it wasn't for Federal Laws in numerous states. Anti-miscegenation laws have been on the books in the United States since the early 1700's and the whole time Thomas Jefferson was having sex with Sarah Hemings he was breaking the law of the land in Virginia. Again, this took a 1967 Federal court case to overturn these laws with the last two states, Alabama and Virginia, not cleaning up their constitutions until 2004 and 2000.

      Thus its obvious that the concept of slavery has gone on a lot longer in the United States than what you care to imagine and all you have done is create a straw man in an attempt to make a point that is false.

      Its like claiming that "some of my best friends are black" and using that as some sort of defense that discrimination does not exist. Its cultural and its a factor in the thought process of both blacks and whites who were born and raised in the United States.

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  4. You can't compare foreigners with natives in this way. It's just stupid and pointless.

    Take white Americans as ranked with Scandinavians in math. Take Americans against a couple of dozen nations in academic prowess! Where are we? At the bottom?

    Take Africans against Middle Easterners at chess! Gets a little complicated there, huh?

    The point is that you should't place your own cultural impositions on others.

    Black Americans have their own subculture and it has been placed upon them for the most part, and let's not forget that reality.

    JMJ

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  5. "First off, you acknowledge race as a basis of discrimination in your own example." Uh, no, Tao, I did not. The point of the post (which was laced with a level of sarcasm and irony that clearly went over your ultra-orthodox and doctrinaire gray matter) was to underscore that IF (and, yes, I created a FICTIONAL character to underscore this) it was discrimination based upon skin color that was keeping African-Americans from succeeding, then you should also see a similar level of underachievement in all of the black populations AND YOU DON'T.......And the white bigot doesn't know when a certain black population was removed from the miseries of slavery and I doubt whether or not he would care (blacks in the North were released from the bonds of slavery earlier than the southern blacks were, too - YOUR POINT?). He would simply see the black skin and act accordingly. Do you frigging understand NOW?......Les tried to warn me of just how dense that you were and he was right.

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    1. When exactly were the blacks in the North released from "the bonds of slavery?" Could you point to some data in regards to this?

      Les? Oh, that's the guy that created JMJ so he would have somebody to debate?

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    2. Some time before the civil war, you know, when they actually fought in the Union army.......And what about the West Indian blacks who migrated to America DURING Jim Crow (the Colin Powell's of the world)?

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  6. And, IF ANYTHING, a hard core bigot would probably be MORE freaked out by a black person with some sort of exotic accent. I still can't believe that you didn't understand my point/approach here. I was creating a frigging farce, for Christ! You know what a farce is, don't you?

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  7. Hey, Jersey, it doesn't seem to bother the African immigrants one iota that we're apparently imposing our culture upon them. No siree Bob. They're achieving at an even higher rate academically than us supposedly preferred caucasians do.......And there have been many groups throughout history that have been just as discriminated against as African-Americans in this country have. The Armenians in Turkey, for example. I mean, my God the frigging Turks tried to exterminate the Armenians and lookee what happened there. The Armenians eventually achieved at a higher rate than the average Turk......And what about you liberals taking a look at some of YOUR policies and how they may have impacted upon the African-American community; rent controls, building restrictions, the minimum wage, eminent domain, certain aspects of the Welfare state (of how Welfare recipients were allowed to shack up with their boyfriends in the '70s and not lose any of their benefits, for example). I mean, I know that you probably want to plop all of this on Reagan (thud) and the Republicans but maybe take a look at healing thyself first, no?

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    1. Your statement Will, "I mean, I know that you probably want to plop all of this on Reagan (thud) and the Republicans but maybe take a look at healing thyself first, no?", I think will likely fall on deaf ears. It is apparent at least to me anyway, that only moderates in the republican AND democratic party seem willing to do that.

      That and rational Objectivist.

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    2. Me, you, Kent Conrad, and Tom Coburn. Now THAT would be a super-duper committee.

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    3. "Hey, Jersey, it doesn't seem to bother the African immigrants one iota that we're apparently imposing our culture upon them. No siree Bob."

      I am now going to assume you don't know any African immigrants.

      I have know a few in my day. They aren't stupid.

      JMJ

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    4. Will, is it just me or is there a dense fog and a distinct scent of skunk that seems to have filled the room as of yesterday late afternoon?

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    5. JMJ - My prior comment was not meant for you. I may find your positions untenable as often as not but you have always been respectful.

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    6. Like I said, Les, you're assessment was very apt.

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  8. No, Jersey, they AREN'T stupid (one in fact was my wife's neurosurgeon and I've also worked with one - so, yes, I have known a few) but neither have most of them come here affluent, either. And they succeed in spite of all of this supposed bigotry. That's the point.

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