Reason and Religion, Are They Compatible?

by: Les Carpenter
Rational Nation USA
Liberty -vs- Tyranny


This site was started almost three years ago, in large part because of the influence the free thinkers of the Age of Reason, the Enlightenment, and Ayn Rand have had on my thought and life. It has been good.

Comments

  1. I think history and its greatest thinkers show that they are.

    "The dumb ox" did a pretty good job on his own, and Descartes and Pascal weren't too shabby either.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Whether they are or not, and to what degree, depends on a multitude of factors.

      After giving many many years of consideration, contemplation, and reasoned thought (this following my once desire to be a missionary) I personally decided the two concepts are as incompatible as they are compatible.

      Properly understanding ethics and morality will allow one to be righteous without being religious.

      But of course that requires an understanding of The Virtue of Selfishness and Rational Self Interest. Something few people actually do.

      Must depart to more pressing matters. More later... perhaps.

      Delete
  2. Well, if you're going to define religion as simply any set of personally held beliefs, it makes it hard to compare to succinct concept like reason. It depends.

    If by religion one means belief in God, then yes, it can be compatible with reason, as long as the belief in God carries with it no weight in your reasoning.

    If by religion one means an "obsession or mania" for individualism, then no, that is not compatible with reason. We humans are both and at once individualistic and social. Social Individuals. That is not a dualism. It is stark reality. If one believes otherwise, then they either the incapable of reason, or simply are not aware of this reality, which for any educated adult would render them the former.

    If by religion one means ideology, then as well it is not compatible with reason. Ideologues are to reason what a reckless child is to safety.

    But if by religion one means personal belief that one espouses but does not hold above reason, then religion is compatible with science, as it was in the case of most of the great religious thinkers of the past.

    JMJ

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    Replies
    1. Belief in God is based solely on faith as there is no conclusive evidence of the existence of God. At the same time there is no conclusive evidence God doesn't exist either. So, faith is required to sustain a belief in God.

      Man made religion, with their beliefs in ritualistic traditions, combined with a history worldwide of violence in the name of God is completely lacking in reason. Or put another way ethics and morality.

      Your reference to individualism (with it's implication of anti Randian thought) fails to pass muster. It is a completely illogical and does nothing to support the premise that reason and religion as being comparable.

      Must run as time pressing matters must be addressed at this time.

      Delete
  3. jmj,
    well thought out conclusionary argument. took all the fun out of debating with you on this issue. lol

    the only question left is Les's understanding of the meaning of "religion". then the premises to your conclusions can be added.

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  4. Griper: Yeah, Jersey has been taking the fun out of it by saying stuff I agree with. I guess we should enjoy the warm feelings while they last

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  5. A complete response to your remark as to "my understanding" griper will have to wait just a bit. In the interest of time constraints at this moment.

    But I can tell you this... To the degree that reason is the path used to determining a persons ethics and morality religion and reason can then be compatible.

    More as time permits...

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  6. I think that reason is far more compatible with spirituality than it is with religion (organized religion, most specifically), the latter construct being utterly too dogmatic.

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  7. Les, belief in God is not based solely on faith. People have had and have shared spiritual experiences that are quite astounding, and you know it. Though you or I may not be religious, we must not assume the religious are stupid or wrong in any given argument. Altruism, on up to martyrdom, has it's place.

    JMJ

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    Replies
    1. First let me clear something up for you jmj, I do not think nor do I called religious people stupid. Calling ideas you disagree with or people who do not share your thoughts stupid is something you have a knack for.

      As a matter of fact I am so offended by the word stupid I put it in the same class as the word faggot, another derogatory adjective you have used at RN USA in the past.

      So going forward I'll ask you refrain from using these fords to describe people, regardless of personal thoughts you may have.

      Now, Belief in God is based on faith.

      I have not said faith is a bad or negative thing for those for which it works. If faith gives one strength and comfort who am I (or anyone) to criticize or convince them different. I will discuss my views with those who are willing and when all is said and done if nothing has changed then it's time for a beer or wine and continue to live life as we always have.

      In as much as I respect the choice to believe in God I also expect those who do to respect the choice of those who do not.

      I am not offended by Christmas trees, Nativity scenes, Menorahs, Crosses, Easter Bunnies, or any other expression(s) of faith by believers in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, or any other religion in so long as the expressions and practice thereof are non threatening or violent.

      As to spiritual experiences that are quite astounding. I acknowledge this, in fact my own father has shared a couple he has had with me. As there is no other explanation it is reasonable for the human mind to fill in the blanks if you will. Especially when one is under emotional stress and anxiety.

      Nonetheless, the point you make is understood and I acknowledge it. Again the bottom line is those experiences are very real to the individuals they happened to.

      As to altruism, in my view it has no place. I will not explain here the philosophical basis on which I rest my argument for time will not allow. If you are interested I can give you a couple books which may help you to grow to see why I view altruism as I do.

      As to martyrdom, I have little use for the concept as well. No real bonafide heroes? I'm okay with that concept when truly earned. But that would be another subjective discussion now wouldn't it?

      Delete

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