Saturday, July 31, 2010

The Ground Zero Mosque... ADL is Right to Oppose

By: Les Carpenter III
Rational Nation USA

I have maintained my pledge to generally keep the debate of religious theocratic philosophy, with all the sordid details with respect to human suffering that are part of it's history, off the pages of this sight. I can no longer do so.

The proposed construction of a Mosque near Ground Zero, and the rush by the progressives to argue in support of its construction, leads me to delve into the issue, and provide a reality check for those in favor of any such construction. Just to set the record straight, because the progressives who read this will otherwise undoubtedly call me a right wing  Bible thumping fanatic, I am a believe that religion, or the lack thereof is a deeply personal issue. If there is one issue I agree with the progressives on it likely would be the issue of religion and its place in society. But I digress.

The attack on the United States of America on September 11, 2001 was an attack by Islamic religious extremists that are determined to destroy not only the USA, but any civil society that does not accept the religion of Islam. While there are probably hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of moderate Muslims who can live in peace with their non Islamic neighbor, the very structure of the Islamic religion, the Koran is anything but peaceful. To the devout adherents of Islam a mosque at this place represents a breath taking victory of the west and its infidels.

The argument that Islam is a religion of peace is a myth carried not only by moderate Imams and Mullahs, and by progressive in America that have latched onto the "feel good" aura it provides them. It is likely few of them are aware of the history of Muhammad, Islams creator, or the requirements of  the devout adherents to the faith of Muhammad.

Muhammad was anything but a piece loving, compassionate, and understanding individual. He was committed to the conversion of all peoples to his new faith of Islam. Following an excerpt from Who Was Muhammad?

Islam spread rapidly in Yathrib, now Medina, and Muhammad took his followers there to settle and build a great Mosque.  After settling the area for his followers and another marriage to a 10-year-old girl, a long list of  "holy wars" began.  Those people who were conquered in these battles were given three choices:  accept Islam, pay tribute, or die by the sword (see the Repentance Surat, verse29).  As a result of this method of forced conversion, many Christian churches were turned into mosques to please the conquering Muslims, while many other Christians not willing to take the easy way out were killed.  After the Battle of Badr, he proclaimed the ordinance "Know that whatsoever thing ye plunder, verily one-fifth thereof is for God and for the Prophet."  The remaining spoils, after Muhammad received one-fifth, were divided among the warriors.  This began the teachings of Jihad, and fighting for the cause of Islam.  Muhammad taught that to die for the cause of Islam was the highest honor and would lead to eternity in Paradise surrounded by virgins.
Surat al-Nisa 4:74  Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other.  Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.
Surat al-Ma'idah 5:33  The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land.  Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom.
In the Battle with the Quraiza Jews, over two thousand Jews were slaughtered by Muhammad and his warriors.  In the bloodbath, Zainab, his adopted son's ex-wife, Muhammad's fifth wife, and a Jewiss taken in battle, lost her husband, father, and brother.  Seeking revenge, Zainab poisoned Muhammad's dinner.  Muhammad spit out the food before it could kill him, but it's effects on him combined with pneumonia in the eleventh year of the Hijra, led to his death at age 64.

History tells us that the twelve months following Muhammad's death were spent in bitter, bloody battles to subdue the Arab tribes who became apostate.  However, Islam continued to grow after Muhammad's death, led by four Khalifs elected by the closest followers of the prophet.  Jihad also continued in much the same way it had under their prophet.  In 634 the Islamic military force advanced on Palestine and Syria, and defeated the Byzantine armies at Yarmouk River in 636.  Forty thousand more Muslims marched to conquer North Africa, followed by the surrender of Jerusalem to the plundering Muslims. 

Over one million Armenian Christians were savagely slaughtered by the Turkish Muslims at the beginning of the twentieth century.  According to a report by Khartoum University professors Ushari Mahmud and Suleyman Ali Blado, more than one thousand Dinka citizens were massacred in the Western Sudan town of Diem in 1987.  The Baptist Record newspaper of November 5, 1987, added that dozens of pastors have been killed and many churches destroyed since Islamic law was imposed in 1983, when Sudan was officially declared an Islamic republic.  The Baptist World Alliance newsletter of September, 1987, tells of 130 church buildings and pastor's homes, all of Christian denominations in Kadona State in Nigeria, being destroyed by Muslim rioters.  Where does this rampant slaughter in the name of religion come from.  It is taught in the Quran as revealed by the prophet Muhammad.

 Read the exact words from the Koran: Repentance Surat, Verse 29 in which Muhammad preaches:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Translation: The devout Muslim has but three choices when engaging with non Muslims, or as Muhammad saw it infidels. First the devout Muslims will attempt to convert the infidels to Islam, Failing the first Muslims are to subjugate the infidels to Islam and Islamic law, and failing the second they are to kill the infidels. So sayeth Muhammad, the prophet of peace.

The proposed mosque near Ground Zero is a slap in the face to peaceful religions, a stick in the eye of every American, and a coarse disregard for the individuals who died at the hands of proponents of this abhorrent religious dogma and their families.

This sight has been selected because it sends the message to Islamists and Jihadists around the world that infidels died by the sword of Islam in the country that would protect their right to hold the most violent of religious dogma. It is time the progressives wake up and realize that Islam in the modern world sees its destiny the same as it did in 631 AD. To convert the rest of the world to belief in, and acceptance of the Koran and Islamic law, failing this subjugate it to Islamic law, and if both fail annihilate the infidels. Any arguments that attempt to lead us to believe the Muslim community is proposing this site as a means too heal the wounds of 911 den't deserve a respond.

The fight over the  proposed mosque is not just about religious tolerance, it is about recognizing the truth and the danger inherent in the "supposed" peaceful  religion of Islam.

Cross posted at Left Coast Rebel.

Via: Memeorandum
Via: Memeorandum
Via: Contender Ministries
Via: Muslin Access


  1. It's not a Mosque (it's a community center) and it's not at ground zero. I see you still misinform your readers. And you won't respond to my correcting you with the true facts. Typical of a cultist pushing his delusion.

  2. >it's a community center

    The more accurate form is "'community center,' wink, wink, nudge, nudge." It's similar to the comic expression "religion of peace."

  3. Many religions have places where they do things other than worship, but of course, you have your mind set on one intractable idea and definition.
    I'm off to my churches chicken dinner at the basement of the towns community center.

  4. It IS misleading to say it's at Ground Zero, however, three blocks away is very little better.

  5. Tom: It’s a 13 story Mosque AND Community Center and it’s being built 2 blocks from ground zero in the old Burlington Coat Factory building. Muslim prayers are already being held there according to Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. There are rumors that a second Mosque is being built even CLOSER to ground zero.

    This Rauf character SAYS it’s a way of healing, but according to Muslim religion it’s okay to LIE if it furthers your faith—it’s called “takia”. Also, Islamic tradition is to build on top of an area that you’ve conquered, so building this Mosque/Community Center could be construed as a passive way of declaring domination.

  6. Tom - 1) I clearly said t5he mosque (community center, excuse this minor omission)was two blocks from Ground Zero. I guess you selectively read.

  7. Tom - What I published with respect to Islam and it violent teachings is based in fact. I referenced the exact wording and linked the sight. But so like the progressive with blinders on I bet you never even visited. Have a great chicken diner and when you get the chance educate yourself.

  8. Bastiatarian - Of course we know this as well as all thinking individuals. The progressives are just a bit behind the curve. They are no doubt waiting until they lose their right to chose.

    Bur what the hell, what do us conservatives know anyway.

  9. Gorges - I must stand corrected. I said only "near Ground Zero", my omission and I guess it gave the progressive the fire they need to point out my otherwise factual representation as hyperbole.

    Go figure right?

  10. Pam - Thanks you for your painstaking research into this matter.

    You are absolutely correct that it is okay in the religion of Islam to lie if it furthers the cause of Islam and Sharia.

    Thank you for pointing this out.

  11. My apologies, Rational, so many OTHER people are saying AT Ground Zero that I let the word "near" register as the same.

  12. Some priests molest children, so I guess they all do? Some hijack religion for their own purposes, so I guess whatever they do defines that religion?
    It's a great ploy by the right to take a single incident and apply to a whole group.
    Muslims pray ANYWHERE, just as any other religious people do.
    These are Muslim-Americans and have no love for, or intent to help Ben Ladin, or any other terrorist sect of their religion. But go ahead and insult every Muslim in the World with your bigoted view of their religion.
    Your comments reflect the FOX motto of fair and balanced "NOT"
    If one does it, they all do it, right?
    So I guess if Bluepitbull attacks my blog with vile and nasty comments, then as his friend, I can ASSume you condone his actions and do the same thing yourself.

  13. Tom - Thanks for visiting. Your comments are of course always welcome.

    However, as the your comments reflect nothing more than a venting and rant (something I can appreciate as all seem to do it from time to time)I shall need time to sort out the emotion from the facts, if there are any actually present in your stream.

    I can add that you are making a hell of a leap in arriving at your statements. But as a firm believer in free speech I support your right to utter nonsense.

  14. Not just a rant to point out your errors in facts. The smallest errors make the biggest misinformation.
    The acts of one, or a few do not define a religion.
    I understand that concept does not fit in to your thinking, that the whole group is defined by one act, or person.
    Have fun living in your delusion.

  15. Tom - It is in fact you who refuse to accept the FACTS that ARE printed in the Koran for ALL, even you to read and understand. The fact you choose to keep your head where the sun don't shine is of course your right. As I said I support that.

    So, in closing, and with all due respect, rationality isn't your strong suit, pure progressive emotionalism is.

    So my fine leftist nemesis it is indeed YOU who are DELUSIONAL!

    Have fun living in your dankness with your pacifier, the progressive collectivist hordes.

  16. >These are Muslim-Americans and have no love for, or intent to help Ben Ladin, or any other terrorist sect of their religion

    That reminds me of what the neighbors always say when the guy next door is arrested for killing and eating 15 people: "He always seemed like such a nice, polite young man."

    >the whole group is defined by one act, or person.

    That would be wrong, of course, but when you've got millions of acts by millions of people, in a clear, specific, and consistent pattern, over a period of many centuries, that's usually pretty good for a definition.

  17. America have been attacked by millions of Muslims over many centuries?
    The making of new facts in progress. I wonder how the History books missed that fact?

  18. Tom - With all due respect, because I believe your heat is attempting to be in the right place, you haven't a clue.

  19. And you twist the true facts to fit your cultist delusion.

  20. Tom - Blah,blah, blah...

    And you have given no hard evidence to support anything you say. I did.

    Enough said!

  21. Tom: Where in the Bible is it written that Jesus says to reform everyone to Christianity or murder them?

    There are evil Christians, to be sure, just as there are evil HUMANS, period. But the Koran is the only religious book I know that explicitly states to reform others or kill them. So, if one is a Muslim and reading the Koran, how does one escape it? Please explain because I don’t know how one can study the Koran, believe and follow it and yet be peaceful. If you know something different, please enlighten me.

  22. RN,

    The facts you gave are wrong, incorrect facts. Do you print false facts on purpose?


    The christian God, is a killing God.

    He killed every living thing on Earth except Noah, his family, and animals.

    Revelations says that God will reign for a thousand years while he kills off the sinful (judgment) and then the rest can kneel at his feet and worship him for eternity. Sound like a selfish, dictorial God?

  23. Tom - You reveal yourself to be the the ignorant sorry excuse for a human being that you are.

    You have supplied no data whatsoever to support you BS. My facts can be substantiated. Go look when you pull your head out of your A...

    Aside from that your abject ignorance deserves no further comment from me. I leave others to decide for themselves.

  24. Tom: I was under the impression that we were discussing Muhammad, who, like Jesus, was a prophet.

  25. If you say that a holy book incites violence, than what difference is there between their book, or some other holy book? Violence is the way God in the King James Bible manipulated people. Like asking for the life of a son to prove loyalty. How ugly were the crusades? Is there a difference between the violence of the christian bible, or theirs? Jesus is God's son, or given the holy trinity idea, the same spirit.

  26. Tom - The issue as I presented it deals specifically with the Religion of Islam. The references and links are factual and in no way misrepresentations of facts.

    I simply did the reporting and as op ed columnists do gave my opinion based on my interpretation of the information. I could provide much more as I have researched this issue at length... Feel free to disagree. I stand by my post.

    In response to your recent comments. I start first by saying I have quite a few Muslim friends who are very dear to me. They abhor the violence they see from Muslim extremists. They also for the most part know less about their own religion than I. On several occasions I pointed them to their own Ho;y book and gave them specific verses. They were quite shocked. Bur of course they left their Country of origin for a freer and more open life in America. Guess what... They did it legally and they now speak fluent English. As well as Farsi and some German.

    I have studied religion and religious history, having read the King James Version as well as many biblical reference books. Having done so I will address your specifics line item by line item

    1)Both the Old Testament and the Koran are replete with references to war and Gos's place therein.

    2) The New testament is absence any reference to or support of violence against oes fellow man. Christ is rumored to have taught if a man strikes you on one cheek turn to him the other, or words to that effect.

    3) I agree Tom that God (supposedly) asked for a human sacrifice to show loyalty unbending loyalty to him. This is abhorrent if actually true and it sets up the concept of sacrifice that has been used for thousands of years. It continues to be used by the progressive collectivist even in todays modern world, albeit minus the obvious.

    4) The crusades were ugly Tom. The Muslim hordes who initially invaded southern Europe had to be stopped and driven back. Nonetheless it was ugly and both the Christians and Muslims were fighting in a world and in civilizations with much different ethics that the west holds to today.

    5) Is there a difference between the Christan Bible and The Koran you ask. My answer is a resounding yes.

    No where in the New Testament does it call for the forced subjugation to Christianity nor the killing of those who refuse to convert or be
    subjugated. While men may have used the New Testament in nefarious ways the Testament does not call for it. the Koran has it in Black and White. As does Sharia Law.

    Mt final point is this... No Modern civilized nation of the 21 century calls for Jihad against those who do not believe in the Christian religious faith. Nor does the Jewish faith call for Jihad against those who do not believe kn Judaism.

    The Koran, and millions of it's adherents call for holy way (Jihad) against all infidels, or non believers of the Islamic faith. this is what 911 represents, and the Muslim mission to overwhelm, convert, subjugate, or ultimately destroy non believers is a very real threat. We ignore this threat at our peril.

    The proposed Mosque does represent victory too the devout Muslim over western decadence and our infidel status.

    Tom I could give you more. I have already given you more than perhaps you wanted or deserved. If you are really curious and have an open mind I encourage you to avail yourself of the wealth of information with respect to this subject.

    I Caution you this: If you ever post a comment accusing me, or any of my contributors of lying without providing substantiated linkable sites, or provide a quote that can be verified you will be deleted.

    I believe you are a smart guy Tom, even though we don't agree on much.

    Should you ever do it a second time you will be banned from Rational Nation USA.

    I look forward to your response with supporting links and documentation

  27. Tom - As you likely guessed I am not at all religious and can tolerate ant religion tjhat leaves me alone as I do them.

    My bag is spirituality of the truly independent and individual kind.

    I have no specific god, I follow ethics and morals as understood by me here on this home of ours called earth

  28. You haven't given supporting links and documentation, you gave your opinion.

    Did you quote the Koran? Did you report that this building was a community center? Did you mention that the Mayor approves of the building and its location? Did you report that other religions are for this building project?

    You are practicing religious phobia. This is not a religious war, and those terrorists are a SMALL percentage of the faith.

    Of course your friends were shocked. They don't believe in religious practices of hate and violence.

    These terrorists have hijacked their religion, just as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson have hijacked christianity and spred their hate.

    The Old Testament is full of violence from God himself. Popes have gone out and killed in the name of the King James Bible God.

    That gives justification to people like Robertson who calls for violence against gays, because it is a violation of God's Laws, or approve of the killing of Mr. Sheppard because he was gay.

    Is it a violation of God's laws? Where is it in the Bible that God says it is?

    The Bible makes clear distinction between what God says and what other people in the Bible say.

    Religious freedom, is freedom in the USA. I don't know, or care what they do in other countries about religious freedom.

    These Muslim Americans have done nothing wrong, and there is no basis to ban their building, except for some peoples unfounded fear.

    By the way, Muslims died in the 9/11 attacks also. Not just in NY, but at the Pentagon and in Penn.

    Ban me if you want. it's a typical trick for those who cannot defend what they say.

  29. TOM - Your inaccuracies have been so noted. Your itellectual shortcomings have been given due consideration.

    Verdict - Huge Fail.

    good night sister.

  30. TOM said...
    It's not a Mosque (it's a community center) and it's not at ground zero. I see you still misinform your readers. And you won't respond to my correcting you with the true facts. Typical of a cultist pushing his delusion.

    Is he kidding?

    Boy talk about being delusional, he takes First prize!

  31. Mal - I believe Tom is kidding. He kids himself everyday most likely.

    Kinda feel sorry for the poor fella. He actually believes himself.

  32. Blogger keeps putting up these REALLY OLD items. so I can go look at them.

    If the ground zero mosque wasn't a mosque, then St Peter's Basilica isn't a church but is instead a cool shady place to relax during the summer Rome heat.

    Tom, alas, might have passed on. from what some were saying...


As this site encourages free speech and expression any and all honest political commentary is acceptable. Comments with cursing or vulgar language will not be posted.

Effective 3/4/18 Anonymous commenting has been disabled and this site has reverted to comment moderation. This unfortunate action is necessary due to the volume of Anonymous comments that are either off topic or irrelevant to the post subject.

While we appreciate and encourage all political viewpoints we feel no obligation to post comments that fail to rise to the standards of decency and decorum we have set for Rational Nation USA.

Thank you for your understanding... The management.